Help...Confused Newbie Pt5

[Nutcrac]

I am going to break this down in more detail as it seems like it's not coming across properly.

The first and foremost thing you need to understand is your arrogant way of responding to posts. And again it is your opinion and yor are entitled to it. Wish there was a round table conference and we could have discussed it more clearly.

I want to be very clear with my position here - I AM NOT AGAINST DBing. ALL I AM SAYING IS THE STRATEGY FOR DBing SHOULD BE DIFFERENT FOR WW vs WAW. ALSO I AM NOT SAYING PURSUING FULLY IS THE WAY TO GO. YOU NEED TO GET THAT INTO YOUR THICK HEAD.

I will probably respond to you down here so read it when you are calm.

All I can say is every stitch is different.

Different in details, but the overall patterns are virtually identical, down to what the WW/WAW says to the LBS. I've read hundreds of sitches here in my time and there is no deviation from the pattern. So, people come here thinking their situation is unique, but it's not. Newcomers truly need to understand that - you are not unique, and that's okay because we can help you.

If you think Every LBH would have followed the exact pattern of what needs to be done for every WAS move, it is such Bull$hit. Everyone by now would have got their WAW / WW back. Situations may exhibit similarities but the way you approach should be different. There is no "One size fits for all" method here.

The timelines for NC/Dark are different.

The only reason timelines are different for NC/Dark is because that timeline is controlled by the WW/WAW. The LBS does not control this timeline and cannot accelerate outcomes by breaking NC/Dark.

Agreed the timelines are controlled by WW/WAW. Because they need their own time to cool off. What makes them think otherwise about the LBH. If the WAW one day sees LBH in a different light from his/her expectations that could trigger second thoughts. I am not saying she will change her mind immediately and come running to you to hug or something. There are certain times a possible flip a switch reconciliation which is very rare but happens. Its just that if you are in the right place at the right time, thinks may just happen, like a lottery or like the "BOOM" thing you do. You never know.

Spouse expectations for a MR is different

That's a general bull$hit statement. There are no overall differences in what spouses expect - safety, love, affection, support, joy, fun etc etc. How we implement that depends on people.

Before calling BS to many of my view points you should calm down and understand and read it again. Or you can ask me why that is so i can explain. You mentioned above some expectations. What i meant is some spouses like mine wanted more affection, some spouses want more fun. I meant different expectations in that way.

In all cases the spouse is wanting to leave. Some may reconcile and many usually never. Because this depends on the mindset and the actual MR and how it went through all the time.

Again general bull$hit statements. Refer to my point about differences in detail, but at the meta level, it is all the same pattern and theme - that is the more important piece to pay attention to rather than the small details.

This shows how much impatient you are not listening to others point of view. Some spouses will have had a very long period of negative thoughts of MR and would have determined "No matter what I will leave", while some would have a negative view of their MR for sepcific reasons and may think of a second chance if their expectations are met. Whether small / big details it all boils down to what they are missing and ready to overcome their negative thoughts.

NC/ going dark is a very subjective approach.

No it's not. That's your take on it. You want to cherry pick stuff, you do that. But it's not subjective at all. There simple thing about NC/Dark is this: keep communication lines open for kids and business stuff, nothing else; NO R TALKS; keep communications simple and straightforward and like a business transaction; in person should be pleasant and assertive.

What exactly do you think I am cherry picking here. Even MWD suggests that if you have tried an approach and observe that it is not working for a long period of time, you should change the approach and try a different approach. the word 'long' here is subjective. So if according to you, you keep doing your NC until you die, you may get her in heaven. Good luck with that!

Lets assume for discussion purposes, if you had a fight with your wife and you went dark for 6 months, when you contact her back, she will usually remember the last state you left her with the argument and miseries and she will question you on that. However, during those 6 months, if you confidently approach her with NO expectations, listen and empathize her and hear her heart, that builds / bridges the communication.

That's your take on it, which I believe is wrong. DBing supports validation and empathy, but ONLY when the WW/WAS brings up R talks. The LBS does not force it or start those talks and definitely does not talk about themselves when validating. In six months, you are no where near confidently approaching anybody as the LBS.

So are you setting the timeline saying six months is not enough. What according to you is a good enough timeline for confidently approaching anybody?

You dont need to do NC / Dark for long time.

Yes you do. You do that until the WW/WAS has thawed out their anger and resentment and all of that. On the flip side, the LBS uses the NC/Dark to truly understand what they did wrong and self-reflect and make improvements and build confidence. There is no short cut here.

Yes you are right. You can wait for the whole life for your wife to lessen her anger and resentment and she may still be unhappy. This is provided the WAW is really trying to give her effort in order to make this relationship work. If not you are just wondering all the time wiating for her.

Now she is feeling lonely and deserted. Yes she is still angry with me. But at the same time, she feels i abandoned and ignored her.

Yes, that's called a reality check. She needs to work through that on her own. You're not going to change how she feels. In fact, the more she hasn't you around to soothe her feelings, the better it is for her to see life as it is, not her fantasy.

She will work through that and at the same time, if you have gone Dark, she may think you have moved on and doesnt beleive you. That is where the emotional connection is required.

That is a small sign which shows she had enough space - "do something".

That is clearly not a sign for definitely that. You're completely misreading the situation.

Not misreading. Its a leap of faith you need to take with confidence and true effort. If the outcome is negative so be it.

All i can tell you is that at this time the WAW had no idea what she wants and still in a dilemma. By you being confident and show what you can do to bridge the gap, it shows your strength as a man of courage. Your WAW will appreciate it inside of her although she may scream at you outside. If you listen to her shouts and her scream and become afraid and give up, your WAW thinks that you don't want her.

Nahhhh bro! you got it all wrong and upside down. You can't solve her dilemma and you're the last person she wants help and confidence from. You're not a man of courage. You're being selfish and inconsiderate to her needs and not taking her wishes into account. You're doing what you want to do - show her you're a MAN. A real man backs off and handles his business first and becomes the prize. What you talking about ain't it.

Do you really understand what I am trying to say here? The Confidence is for YOU! Oh and btw, I am backing off and handling my own business. I have never initiated contact with her for the last 3+ months or so. But I do not intend to go Dark!

If you listen to her shouts and her scream and become afraid and give up, your WAW thinks that you don't want her. Allow her heart to release the frustration.

Yes, validation. Good if she doesn't think you want her. That's where you need to get to with confidence and mystery and wonder. All you're doing is being a beta male. While you think going up to her place with confidence is what's alpha, it's actually not. It's aggressive and coercive and selfish.

Guess you like to criticize people more around here rather than accepting inputs and providing your view points. So if you are an alpha male you will simply get your woman back?? As if there are no alpha males in this forum? Everyone who lost their spouses are beta males? Listen to yourself when you speak.

I haven't fully disclosed this yet, but I think this warrants it. I am South Asian. I hella know the cultural background to all of this. This is not some f#$king Bollywood movie. Yeh, I know all of that stuff and how our culture promotes chasing women even when they don't want you and all of that. That the pursuit is noble and she'll change her mind and turn around. If you're getting your cues from Bollywood, you're going to sadly fail. I know I am making a huge leap of assumption here, but everything you have written in your sitch speaks of male privilege, patriarchy, and not listening to women and their needs - which we do very brilliantly in our culture unfortunately.

You haven't even given DB an honest chance. So, until you do and suspend your beliefs, you're not going to understand it.

The problem with your opinions is your judgmental behavior. You just want to assume things. I never pointed any of the above statements that you made. If I had am not giving DB an honest chance, I wouldn't be here posting stuff and asking for recommendations. I have taken your advice as well. I will apply some of the points, which i feel fits my situation but not everything. You need to have your own brains in order to do what is best for your situation, rather then blindly following textbook patterns.

B - sorry I got all pissed off in your thread, but it really gets to me when people are given bull$hit advice. I really want you to get emotionally grounded and handle your business and understand that this is a marathon and this will require unbelievable patience on your part and trusting the process.

There are plenty of us here who have not trusted the process to come back here and report how we've made it worse. Before anyone decides to critique the DB approach, put it into solid practice and then come back and talk. Otherwise it's all nonsense and hot air. [/quote]

Like i mentioned again, the problem with you is you are very judgemental. I want to point out here again DBing does work. It has definitely helped me and many others. It is a starting point for every LBH and truly a great But down the line when you start getting to understand your relationship more, you should start taking certain steps (I am not saying to go against DB) but follow a bit of a different method here and there. Apply your own brains and be confident. And do not assume the process to be the same for WAW / WW.