Help...Confused Newbie Pt5

[Nutcrac]

Maika - I am not trying to be argumentative or giving wrong inputs. I agree that I am a newcomer and may not be as experienced as many of the forum members like you are.
All I can say is every stitch is different. The timelines for NC/Dark are different. Spouse expectations for a MR is different. In all cases the spouse is wanting to leave. Some may reconcile and many usually never. Because this depends on the mindset and the actual MR and how it went through all the time. NC/ going dark is a very subjective approach. Lets assume for discussion purposes, if you had a fight with your wife and you went dark for 6 months, when you contact her back, she will usually remember the last state you left her with the argument and miseries and she will question you on that. However, during those 6 months, if you confidently approach her with NO expectations, listen and empathize her and hear her heart, that builds / bridges the communication. All i say is keep No expectations, just listen to her. You dont need to do NC / Dark for long time. Be confident in every approach without being needy. If she says get out after a fight respect her feelings and go and don't cling on. My wife was asking for space, and she felt that in house space was not enough. Hence she moved out. Now she is feeling lonely and deserted. Yes she is still angry with me. But at the same time, she feels i abandoned and ignored her. That is a small sign which shows she had enough space - "do something". Now that is the tricky part on how the LBH can handle. He can do something by going further dark / NC or he can emotionally connect with her and empathize her feelings. All i can tell you is that at this time the WAW had no idea what she wants and still in a dilemma. By you being confident and show what you can do to bridge the gap, it shows your strength as a man of courage. Your WAW will appreciate it inside of her although she may scream at you outside. If you listen to her shouts and her scream and become afraid and give up, your WAW thinks that you don't want her. Allow her heart to release the frustration. Who knows may be she can open up more or may be never. You all have criticized me on the other post of being needy, selfish, stubborn and all this. Yes I may have all these qualities. But without these qualities, I still have the courage to stay strong and expect the worst. I really don't care if anyone wants to listen to my advice as a newcomer. But I can tell you one thing. No one is more better than understanding his/her own situation than you. I may give you 100s of advices, but you know your stitch best. I know my stitch best and so does ballast his. So despite all the suggestions in this forum, One thing stands out. You do what is best for your stitch based on your current circumstances and be strong and confident!

[SteveLW]

A WW wife is a cheater, highly manipulative and can go to any extent to hurt LBH coz she can blame LBH due to OM physical and emotional support.

This is not true. While many WW also cheat, not all of them do. WW is a state of mind, not just actions. This is why I cautioned you in your thread not to make this assumption. Also, detachment IS NOT GOING DARK!!! Going dark IE the LRT, is for very specific circumstances. It has nothing to do with WAW or WW, it has to do with the actions the WAW and WW have taken.

IE, a WAW/WW has moved out and says they want a divorce and to be left alone, you go NC. Actually I don't like the term No Contact. It should be No Initiation of Contact. But you respond with validation and politeness when they initiate.

[Maika]

I am going to break this down in more detail as it seems like it's not coming across properly.

All I can say is every stitch is different.

Different in details, but the overall patterns are virtually identical, down to what the WW/WAW says to the LBS. I've read hundreds of sitches here in my time and there is no deviation from the pattern. So, people come here thinking their situation is unique, but it's not. Newcomers truly need to understand that - you are not unique, and that's okay because we can help you.

The timelines for NC/Dark are different.

The only reason timelines are different for NC/Dark is because that timeline is controlled by the WW/WAW. The LBS does not control this timeline and cannot accelerate outcomes by breaking NC/Dark.

Spouse expectations for a MR is different

That's a general bull$hit statement. There are no overall differences in what spouses expect - safety, love, affection, support, joy, fun etc etc. How we implement that depends on people.

In all cases the spouse is wanting to leave. Some may reconcile and many usually never. Because this depends on the mindset and the actual MR and how it went through all the time.

Again general bull$hit statements. Refer to my point about differences in detail, but at the meta level, it is all the same pattern and theme - that is the more important piece to pay attention to rather than the small details.

NC/ going dark is a very subjective approach.

No it's not. That's your take on it. You want to cherry pick stuff, you do that. But it's not subjective at all. There simple thing about NC/Dark is this: keep communication lines open for kids and business stuff, nothing else; NO R TALKS; keep communications simple and straightforward and like a business transaction; in person should be pleasant and assertive.

Lets assume for discussion purposes, if you had a fight with your wife and you went dark for 6 months, when you contact her back, she will usually remember the last state you left her with the argument and miseries and she will question you on that. However, during those 6 months, if you confidently approach her with NO expectations, listen and empathize her and hear her heart, that builds / bridges the communication.

That's your take on it, which I believe is wrong. DBing supports validation and empathy, but ONLY when the WW/WAS brings up R talks. The LBS does not force it or start those talks and definitely does not talk about themselves when validating. In six months, you are no where near confidently approaching anybody as the LBS.

You dont need to do NC / Dark for long time.

Yes you do. You do that until the WW/WAS has thawed out their anger and resentment and all of that. On the flip side, the LBS uses the NC/Dark to truly understand what they did wrong and self-reflect and make improvements and build confidence. There is no short cut here.

Now she is feeling lonely and deserted. Yes she is still angry with me. But at the same time, she feels i abandoned and ignored her.

Yes, that's called a reality check. She needs to work through that on her own. You're not going to change how she feels. In fact, the more she hasn't you around to soothe her feelings, the better it is for her to see life as it is, not her fantasy.

That is a small sign which shows she had enough space - "do something".

That is clearly not a sign for definitely that. You're completely misreading the situation.

All i can tell you is that at this time the WAW had no idea what she wants and still in a dilemma. By you being confident and show what you can do to bridge the gap, it shows your strength as a man of courage. Your WAW will appreciate it inside of her although she may scream at you outside. If you listen to her shouts and her scream and become afraid and give up, your WAW thinks that you don't want her.

Nahhhh bro! you got it all wrong and upside down. You can't solve her dilemma and you're the last person she wants help and confidence from. You're not a man of courage. You're being selfish and inconsiderate to her needs and not taking her wishes into account. You're doing what you want to do - show her you're a MAN. A real man backs off and handles his business first and becomes the prize. What you talking about ain't it.

If you listen to her shouts and her scream and become afraid and give up, your WAW thinks that you don't want her. Allow her heart to release the frustration.

Yes, validation. Good if she doesn't think you want her. That's where you need to get to with confidence and mystery and wonder. All you're doing is being a beta male. While you think going up to her place with confidence is what's alpha, it's actually not. It's aggressive and coercive and selfish.

I haven't fully disclosed this yet, but I think this warrants it. I am South Asian. I hella know the cultural background to all of this. This is not some f#$king Bollywood movie. Yeh, I know all of that stuff and how our culture promotes chasing women even when they don't want you and all of that. That the pursuit is noble and she'll change her mind and turn around. If you're getting your cues from Bollywood, you're going to sadly fail. I know I am making a huge leap of assumption here, but everything you have written in your sitch speaks of male privilege, patriarchy, and not listening to women and their needs - which we do very brilliantly in our culture unfortunately.

You haven't even given DB an honest chance. So, until you do and suspend your beliefs, you're not going to understand it.

B - sorry I got all pissed off in your thread, but it really gets to me when people are given bull$hit advice. I really want you to get emotionally grounded and handle your business and understand that this is a marathon and this will require unbelievable patience on your part and trusting the process.

There are plenty of us here who have not trusted the process to come back here and report how we've made it worse. Before anyone decides to critique the DB approach, put it into solid practice and then come back and talk. Otherwise it's all nonsense and hot air.

[SteveLW]

Maika - I am not trying to be argumentative or giving wrong inputs. I agree that I am a newcomer and may not be as experienced as many of the forum members like you are.
All I can say is every stitch is different. The timelines for NC/Dark are different. Spouse expectations for a MR is different. In all cases the spouse is wanting to leave. Some may reconcile and many usually never. Because this depends on the mindset and the actual MR and how it went through all the time. NC/ going dark is a very subjective approach. Lets assume for discussion purposes, if you had a fight with your wife and you went dark for 6 months, when you contact her back, she will usually remember the last state you left her with the argument and miseries and she will question you on that. However, during those 6 months, if you confidently approach her with NO expectations, listen and empathize her and hear her heart, that builds / bridges the communication. All i say is keep No expectations, just listen to her. You dont need to do NC / Dark for long time. Be confident in every approach without being needy. If she says get out after a fight respect her feelings and go and don't cling on. My wife was asking for space, and she felt that in house space was not enough. Hence she moved out. Now she is feeling lonely and deserted. Yes she is still angry with me. But at the same time, she feels i abandoned and ignored her. That is a small sign which shows she had enough space - "do something". Now that is the tricky part on how the LBH can handle. He can do something by going further dark / NC or he can emotionally connect with her and empathize her feelings. All i can tell you is that at this time the WAW had no idea what she wants and still in a dilemma. By you being confident and show what you can do to bridge the gap, it shows your strength as a man of courage. Your WAW will appreciate it inside of her although she may scream at you outside. If you listen to her shouts and her scream and become afraid and give up, your WAW thinks that you don't want her. Allow her heart to release the frustration. Who knows may be she can open up more or may be never. You all have criticized me on the other post of being needy, selfish, stubborn and all this. Yes I may have all these qualities. But without these qualities, I still have the courage to stay strong and expect the worst. I really don't care if anyone wants to listen to my advice as a newcomer. But I can tell you one thing. No one is more better than understanding his/her own situation than you. I may give you 100s of advices, but you know your stitch best. I know my stitch best and so does ballast his. So despite all the suggestions in this forum, One thing stands out. You do what is best for your stitch based on your current circumstances and be strong and confident!

SOrry Nutcrac but this is all very dangerous territory. The vets here call what you are suggesting and what you are doing in your own sitch as the illusion of action.

WAWs/WWs want space. You have to give it them. In my own sitch I didn't make any headway until I let go to get her back. We are now in piecing and R. Detachment is about giving space. It is about doing the opposite of what your instincts tell you.

Doing nothing is sometimes the best thing to do! I've told others in these sitches, pressure and pursuit will result 99.5% of the time in the WAW/WW running the other direction. Only when you remove all pressure and pursuit, and only when you start detaching will they start taking steps toward you. But even DBing right only gives you a 50/50 chance, and it takes time!

Where LBS go wrong is in getting impatient, giving up DBing, pursuing and pressuring. This pushes the WAS/WS away faster than anything. Especially when you DB'd well and started making progress.

Also: "Your WAW will appreciate it inside of her" this is simply not true. Pursuit and pressure does not make her appreciate it inside, outside, over or under or anywhere else.

[Maika]

Hey B...

I continue to not pursue but I do reply as when she contacts me. I m friendly, do not get upset nor fight with her.

Good. Continue that. If she initiates contact, vary your timing in reply. Don't need to reply right away unless it's an emergency or time sensitive issue. Keep your communications straight forward, pleasant, and to the point. No R talks. If she brings it up, validate validate validate.

The key in these communications is achieving the balance between being pleasant/confident and being assertive. It comes with time and practice and when the LBS builds enough confidence. If you have NGS tendencies, start working on that.

Basically just letting her go do her thing.

That is EXACTLY what you need to do. As Accuray says all the time - you have to go in the exact opposite direction. DB is counter intuitive to what your mind and heart are telling you, but it is the right approach.

It has me apprehensive that I am losing chances with her but I understand that I can not control her.

The only way you lose chance is by making it worse. Pursuit is going to make it worse. You not focusing on yourself and making improvements is making it worse. You have to let her go on her path and journey. DBing might not save your MR, but it will save you. I am living proof of that, and are many many others here.

In the beginning the LBS is completely unmoored and they find DBing strange and against what they're feeling they should do. And so to receive contradictory advice in this stage is really damaging because the LBS does not have a marker for comparison. Follow Sandi's rules for a while and then observe, evaluate, and make tweaks.

Very hard when she is focused on the D process when she contacts me.

I understand. She is full steam ahead. Don't fight her. Let her have what she wants. She wants the D, cooperate and make sure you are covered and have a good L. Don't do the lifting for the D, let her do that and own that.

I know mistakes will happen and I know no one thing will ruin me nor save me. Just trying in general to have a solid approach to my sitch

Don't sweat the small stuff. We've all made mistakes. If you read through my threads, I've made some giant ones. My only advice would be to truly focus on yourself. I know it's not easy in the beginning, but the sooner you can do self-care in tandem with NC/Dark, you will start unpacking levels of detachment and also improve your emotional and mental well being. I wish I had done it sooner and been more committed to it. It took some windy routes to get there, but once I got there, there was no turning back. I feel a thousand percent better and I have grown immensely.

I am on the other side of this tunnel and my MR is most likely going to end in D, but I am better emotionally, mentally, and physically than ever. It is truly liberating.

[Nutcrac]

I am going to break this down in more detail as it seems like it's not coming across properly.

The first and foremost thing you need to understand is your arrogant way of responding to posts. And again it is your opinion and yor are entitled to it. Wish there was a round table conference and we could have discussed it more clearly.

I want to be very clear with my position here - I AM NOT AGAINST DBing. ALL I AM SAYING IS THE STRATEGY FOR DBing SHOULD BE DIFFERENT FOR WW vs WAW. ALSO I AM NOT SAYING PURSUING FULLY IS THE WAY TO GO. YOU NEED TO GET THAT INTO YOUR THICK HEAD.

I will probably respond to you down here so read it when you are calm.

All I can say is every stitch is different.

Different in details, but the overall patterns are virtually identical, down to what the WW/WAW says to the LBS. I've read hundreds of sitches here in my time and there is no deviation from the pattern. So, people come here thinking their situation is unique, but it's not. Newcomers truly need to understand that - you are not unique, and that's okay because we can help you.

If you think Every LBH would have followed the exact pattern of what needs to be done for every WAS move, it is such Bull$hit. Everyone by now would have got their WAW / WW back. Situations may exhibit similarities but the way you approach should be different. There is no "One size fits for all" method here.

The timelines for NC/Dark are different.

The only reason timelines are different for NC/Dark is because that timeline is controlled by the WW/WAW. The LBS does not control this timeline and cannot accelerate outcomes by breaking NC/Dark.

Agreed the timelines are controlled by WW/WAW. Because they need their own time to cool off. What makes them think otherwise about the LBH. If the WAW one day sees LBH in a different light from his/her expectations that could trigger second thoughts. I am not saying she will change her mind immediately and come running to you to hug or something. There are certain times a possible flip a switch reconciliation which is very rare but happens. Its just that if you are in the right place at the right time, thinks may just happen, like a lottery or like the "BOOM" thing you do. You never know.

Spouse expectations for a MR is different

That's a general bull$hit statement. There are no overall differences in what spouses expect - safety, love, affection, support, joy, fun etc etc. How we implement that depends on people.

Before calling BS to many of my view points you should calm down and understand and read it again. Or you can ask me why that is so i can explain. You mentioned above some expectations. What i meant is some spouses like mine wanted more affection, some spouses want more fun. I meant different expectations in that way.

In all cases the spouse is wanting to leave. Some may reconcile and many usually never. Because this depends on the mindset and the actual MR and how it went through all the time.

Again general bull$hit statements. Refer to my point about differences in detail, but at the meta level, it is all the same pattern and theme - that is the more important piece to pay attention to rather than the small details.

This shows how much impatient you are not listening to others point of view. Some spouses will have had a very long period of negative thoughts of MR and would have determined "No matter what I will leave", while some would have a negative view of their MR for sepcific reasons and may think of a second chance if their expectations are met. Whether small / big details it all boils down to what they are missing and ready to overcome their negative thoughts.

NC/ going dark is a very subjective approach.

No it's not. That's your take on it. You want to cherry pick stuff, you do that. But it's not subjective at all. There simple thing about NC/Dark is this: keep communication lines open for kids and business stuff, nothing else; NO R TALKS; keep communications simple and straightforward and like a business transaction; in person should be pleasant and assertive.

What exactly do you think I am cherry picking here. Even MWD suggests that if you have tried an approach and observe that it is not working for a long period of time, you should change the approach and try a different approach. the word 'long' here is subjective. So if according to you, you keep doing your NC until you die, you may get her in heaven. Good luck with that!

Lets assume for discussion purposes, if you had a fight with your wife and you went dark for 6 months, when you contact her back, she will usually remember the last state you left her with the argument and miseries and she will question you on that. However, during those 6 months, if you confidently approach her with NO expectations, listen and empathize her and hear her heart, that builds / bridges the communication.

That's your take on it, which I believe is wrong. DBing supports validation and empathy, but ONLY when the WW/WAS brings up R talks. The LBS does not force it or start those talks and definitely does not talk about themselves when validating. In six months, you are no where near confidently approaching anybody as the LBS.

So are you setting the timeline saying six months is not enough. What according to you is a good enough timeline for confidently approaching anybody?

You dont need to do NC / Dark for long time.

Yes you do. You do that until the WW/WAS has thawed out their anger and resentment and all of that. On the flip side, the LBS uses the NC/Dark to truly understand what they did wrong and self-reflect and make improvements and build confidence. There is no short cut here.

Yes you are right. You can wait for the whole life for your wife to lessen her anger and resentment and she may still be unhappy. This is provided the WAW is really trying to give her effort in order to make this relationship work. If not you are just wondering all the time wiating for her.

Now she is feeling lonely and deserted. Yes she is still angry with me. But at the same time, she feels i abandoned and ignored her.

Yes, that's called a reality check. She needs to work through that on her own. You're not going to change how she feels. In fact, the more she hasn't you around to soothe her feelings, the better it is for her to see life as it is, not her fantasy.

She will work through that and at the same time, if you have gone Dark, she may think you have moved on and doesnt beleive you. That is where the emotional connection is required.

That is a small sign which shows she had enough space - "do something".

That is clearly not a sign for definitely that. You're completely misreading the situation.

Not misreading. Its a leap of faith you need to take with confidence and true effort. If the outcome is negative so be it.

All i can tell you is that at this time the WAW had no idea what she wants and still in a dilemma. By you being confident and show what you can do to bridge the gap, it shows your strength as a man of courage. Your WAW will appreciate it inside of her although she may scream at you outside. If you listen to her shouts and her scream and become afraid and give up, your WAW thinks that you don't want her.

Nahhhh bro! you got it all wrong and upside down. You can't solve her dilemma and you're the last person she wants help and confidence from. You're not a man of courage. You're being selfish and inconsiderate to her needs and not taking her wishes into account. You're doing what you want to do - show her you're a MAN. A real man backs off and handles his business first and becomes the prize. What you talking about ain't it.

Do you really understand what I am trying to say here? The Confidence is for YOU! Oh and btw, I am backing off and handling my own business. I have never initiated contact with her for the last 3+ months or so. But I do not intend to go Dark!

If you listen to her shouts and her scream and become afraid and give up, your WAW thinks that you don't want her. Allow her heart to release the frustration.

Yes, validation. Good if she doesn't think you want her. That's where you need to get to with confidence and mystery and wonder. All you're doing is being a beta male. While you think going up to her place with confidence is what's alpha, it's actually not. It's aggressive and coercive and selfish.

Guess you like to criticize people more around here rather than accepting inputs and providing your view points. So if you are an alpha male you will simply get your woman back?? As if there are no alpha males in this forum? Everyone who lost their spouses are beta males? Listen to yourself when you speak.

I haven't fully disclosed this yet, but I think this warrants it. I am South Asian. I hella know the cultural background to all of this. This is not some f#$king Bollywood movie. Yeh, I know all of that stuff and how our culture promotes chasing women even when they don't want you and all of that. That the pursuit is noble and she'll change her mind and turn around. If you're getting your cues from Bollywood, you're going to sadly fail. I know I am making a huge leap of assumption here, but everything you have written in your sitch speaks of male privilege, patriarchy, and not listening to women and their needs - which we do very brilliantly in our culture unfortunately.

You haven't even given DB an honest chance. So, until you do and suspend your beliefs, you're not going to understand it.

The problem with your opinions is your judgmental behavior. You just want to assume things. I never pointed any of the above statements that you made. If I had am not giving DB an honest chance, I wouldn't be here posting stuff and asking for recommendations. I have taken your advice as well. I will apply some of the points, which i feel fits my situation but not everything. You need to have your own brains in order to do what is best for your situation, rather then blindly following textbook patterns.

B - sorry I got all pissed off in your thread, but it really gets to me when people are given bull$hit advice. I really want you to get emotionally grounded and handle your business and understand that this is a marathon and this will require unbelievable patience on your part and trusting the process.

There are plenty of us here who have not trusted the process to come back here and report how we've made it worse. Before anyone decides to critique the DB approach, put it into solid practice and then come back and talk. Otherwise it's all nonsense and hot air. [/quote]

Like i mentioned again, the problem with you is you are very judgemental. I want to point out here again DBing does work. It has definitely helped me and many others. It is a starting point for every LBH and truly a great But down the line when you start getting to understand your relationship more, you should start taking certain steps (I am not saying to go against DB) but follow a bit of a different method here and there. Apply your own brains and be confident. And do not assume the process to be the same for WAW / WW.

[Maika]

Dude - after reading how you just showed up at your W's doors and how you interacted with her and what she said to you, that is illuminating enough to show me that you do not understand the finer points of not pursuing, showing space/time, NC/Dark, and think you should something radical rather than calibrate your approach.

I am not being judgmental, just making sure that a newbie who comes here doesn't get the wrong idea. What you advocated is completely against what DBing is about, and there is no way you can tweak your approach until you try it.

I am not about textbook application, but you can only break the rules after you follow them and understand and learn from them. You're not getting the nuances about the approaches.

You want to go and make grand gestures, you go ahead and do it. But, don't advocate that unless you've done and she's come around. Your W is nowhere near turning around and so you have no idea if your approach of showing up and being 'confident' is working.

Also, you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of anger and resentment from the WW/WAW. There is absolute nothing you can do that will help and change that. And none of your approaches will work as long as she is angry and resentful - she is not open to you. So try as much as you want and it will only fuel the anger and disrespect.

You want to go on your path and completely deviate from what everyone is telling you, you have that choice. But don't tell newbies your path until you've proven it works. Prove it to me when recon happens. I can easily prove how the path I am advocating has led to recon and better outcomes.

[Nutcrac]

Maika - I am not trying to be argumentative or giving wrong inputs. I agree that I am a newcomer and may not be as experienced as many of the forum members like you are.
All I can say is every stitch is different. The timelines for NC/Dark are different. Spouse expectations for a MR is different. In all cases the spouse is wanting to leave. Some may reconcile and many usually never. Because this depends on the mindset and the actual MR and how it went through all the time. NC/ going dark is a very subjective approach. Lets assume for discussion purposes, if you had a fight with your wife and you went dark for 6 months, when you contact her back, she will usually remember the last state you left her with the argument and miseries and she will question you on that. However, during those 6 months, if you confidently approach her with NO expectations, listen and empathize her and hear her heart, that builds / bridges the communication. All i say is keep No expectations, just listen to her. You dont need to do NC / Dark for long time. Be confident in every approach without being needy. If she says get out after a fight respect her feelings and go and don't cling on. My wife was asking for space, and she felt that in house space was not enough. Hence she moved out. Now she is feeling lonely and deserted. Yes she is still angry with me. But at the same time, she feels i abandoned and ignored her. That is a small sign which shows she had enough space - "do something". Now that is the tricky part on how the LBH can handle. He can do something by going further dark / NC or he can emotionally connect with her and empathize her feelings. All i can tell you is that at this time the WAW had no idea what she wants and still in a dilemma. By you being confident and show what you can do to bridge the gap, it shows your strength as a man of courage. Your WAW will appreciate it inside of her although she may scream at you outside. If you listen to her shouts and her scream and become afraid and give up, your WAW thinks that you don't want her. Allow her heart to release the frustration. Who knows may be she can open up more or may be never. You all have criticized me on the other post of being needy, selfish, stubborn and all this. Yes I may have all these qualities. But without these qualities, I still have the courage to stay strong and expect the worst. I really don't care if anyone wants to listen to my advice as a newcomer. But I can tell you one thing. No one is more better than understanding his/her own situation than you. I may give you 100s of advices, but you know your stitch best. I know my stitch best and so does ballast his. So despite all the suggestions in this forum, One thing stands out. You do what is best for your stitch based on your current circumstances and be strong and confident!

SOrry Nutcrac but this is all very dangerous territory. The vets here call what you are suggesting and what you are doing in your own sitch as the illusion of action.

WAWs/WWs want space. You have to give it them. In my own sitch I didn't make any headway until I let go to get her back. We are now in piecing and R. Detachment is about giving space. It is about doing the opposite of what your instincts tell you.

Doing nothing is sometimes the best thing to do! I've told others in these sitches, pressure and pursuit will result 99.5% of the time in the WAW/WW running the other direction. Only when you remove all pressure and pursuit, and only when you start detaching will they start taking steps toward you. But even DBing right only gives you a 50/50 chance, and it takes time!

Where LBS go wrong is in getting impatient, giving up DBing, pursuing and pressuring. This pushes the WAS/WS away faster than anything. Especially when you DB'd well and started making progress.

Also: "Your WAW will appreciate it inside of her" this is simply not true. Pursuit and pressure does not make her appreciate it inside, outside, over or under or anywhere else.

Steve85,

I respect your advice, I have taken many of your suggestions and even applied it. I have also seen that you strongly believe in Sandi2's techniques. For example you are simply assuming my WAW is a WW. This is not the case! She is true to herself and I know her well. You should really go back and read many of Sandi2's post for my situation and how her suggestions and her opinion is different from you and many other experts in this forum.

Agreed sometimes doing nothing is the best thing to do. However, Will you do it forever?

I am doing none of the negative things here. I am not giving up DBing, I am not pursuing her, nor pressuring her. In regards to the withdrawal decision, I am standing my ground. And I am just changing the process of going into limited contact vs being dark. I expect to maintain friendly contact and try to build the emotional connect. But however I don't expect to be friends with her forever!

[OrangeK]

Nut,

First of all if you are going to argue with everyone. Please do it on your own thread and stop hijacking Ballast's thread.

Secondly, Please simply consider this.

Several people are telling you the same thing, and you are the one telling all of them (us) that we are wrong. When that happens in other situations in real life, it is 99.9% of the time that the 1 person claiming several other people are wrong, is in fact the one who is wrong.

Choose your own path and methodology with DBing.
I can ensure you the path you discuss is a path to ruination of your MR. You want to know why i know?

I did the exact stuff you are talking about, all of it.
I am on the FAST TRACK to full blown Divorce,
My WW and I are in complete NC, i have a TRO against me and there is NO HOPE of recovery of MR for me.

On your own head sir.

But seriously, leave Ballasts thread alone unless you are discussing HIS sitch, go post on yours please.

[Nutcrac]

Dude - after reading how you just showed up at your W's doors and how you interacted with her and what she said to you, that is illuminating enough to show me that you do not understand the finer points of not pursuing, showing space/time, NC/Dark, and think you should something radical rather than calibrate your approach.

I am not being judgmental, just making sure that a newbie who comes here doesn't get the wrong idea. What you advocated is completely against what DBing is about, and there is no way you can tweak your approach until you try it.

I am not about textbook application, but you can only break the rules after you follow them and understand and learn from them. You're not getting the nuances about the approaches.

You want to go and make grand gestures, you go ahead and do it. But, don't advocate that unless you've done and she's come around. Your W is nowhere near turning around and so you have no idea if your approach of showing up and being 'confident' is working.

Also, you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of anger and resentment from the WW/WAW. There is absolute nothing you can do that will help and change that. And none of your approaches will work as long as she is angry and resentful - she is not open to you. So try as much as you want and it will only fuel the anger and disrespect.

You want to go on your path and completely deviate from what everyone is telling you, you have that choice. But don't tell newbies your path until you've proven it works. Prove it to me when recon happens. I can easily prove how the path I am advocating has led to recon and better outcomes.

Let me tell you this. I showed up at my wife's door step because i had to discuss the divorce issues in Person. An in person representation is better to discuss these matters than a text / phone call which i used to do most of the times. Oh and btw, You are as much selfish as any other LBH in the forum can be. Admit it. In a way, We all want our wives back and we are doing everything in our hand to make them realize that coming back is the best thing to do. So don't go bonkers on me on that.
In fact i very well knew before meeting my wife that it was not the best approach. I was under the impression that my wife could even call the cops or shut the door on me or the worst case scenario. At this point of time I really do not care. As i am ready either ways. I also know my wife is nowhere near the turnaround phase. She may never be. Its just a leap of faith. If you think you should do it, do it with courage and confidence. Not with timid and nervous approach. And again this is a WAW i am dealing with . Not a WW. Same advice given to steve85. Read Sandi2's post in my forum.