Thanks Nicole, Steve and V. the advice I get here always helps me think through things.
Nicole and Steve, I dont know about WAH coming back after D, he is leaving at such a critical time, BD soon after baby was born seems like too much to come back from once he leaves. I feel even if he comes around the guilt in him will be too much to face it but well again I am just trying to analyze and read into the unknown. V, WAH's behaving this way for the last 3 months since BD, what I dont get is his complete change in personality, if he was a systemic abuser wouldnt it show in some form for 15 years, he really did have the patience of a saint before or rather he was a dormant volcano. If he did want control, wouldnt the obvious thing to do is actually stay at home and exercise control instead of wanting a quick D and escape? Understanding this is just so hard and almost impossible. But either way, I am enabling it by being patient. As you pointed out I think I freeze when this happens, now it is not so new anymore so I should start going back to being my original strong self I was pre BD
Hi all, I need advice and guidance. I feel I am approaching the end of road here, H is relentless and I not budging is making things hard at home. He is keen on a D and not just a S. meeting with mediator is next week.
I am going to honestly speak with H before mediation about finances and custody. I will not initiate it but since I know it will come up, I am being prepared for it.
Will validate, keep the conversation to the point and ask him to be civil
Please review these and let me know if any of these should be avoided. I dont know if I am DBing any more to save the MR, but I need to end this amicably enough so may be there is a future at some point or at least we are able to be amicable enough for the kids.
- I am planning to let him know that I have let go. Well emotionally not really but I have no choice so I am at the Last resort beyond LRT phase.
- Negotiate for more custody than what I may get through courts, tell him this in a good way. For their age child custody will not be 50/50 and that is what he is asking for. Tell him i am not a part time mother, I really am not, I have said this before and that the children are just babies so this is the hardest thing for me. I plan to let him know I have met with a L and I know my rights and I will comply with a mediation enabled quick D if he gives me favorable custody time. If he refuses I just say since we cannot seem to agree I do not know what else to do and he is free to do as he wishes.
- I want both of us to be happy and stable since the kids are small and depend on us. So if D is going to make you happy then you can have it and I respect your decision to be free.
- I will thank him for the kids and for the 15 years and say I choose to remember him by that and not by the last 6 months.
- I will be as much NC as possible even while he is at home rather than being like a friendly neighbor.
- at any time if the convo gets heated, I will just take a time out saying this is not going in a positive direction and we will need to take a break.
_ If we cannot come to a consensus, then I will politely say that this does not seem to be reaching a mutual agreement and I will walk away saying it is now up to him however he wishes to proceed.
There are going to be a lot of temper tantrums, complains about how I ruined his life and how I am the reason for all this, I will be calm and respond with 'sorry you feel that way', ' I can see how it must feel like that for you', 'it is unfortunate that this is how things are'
He fears people will think he is abandoning his family so he wants the mediation agreement done before he leaves home so he will be able to say this was an amicably reached settlement due to incompatibility.
I have to rehearse multiple times, and the biggest thing will be to not cry during this, whenever it comes to kids I tend to break down every time so I really need to control it not sure how I can do that.
Which one of these convos is anti DB? any advice on anything else to add or modify. If I should absolutely stop saying any of it please correct me. Please help
- I am planning to let him know that I have let go. Well emotionally not really but I have no choice so I am at the Last resort beyond LRT phase.
He fears people will think he is abandoning his family so he wants the mediation agreement done before he leaves home so he will be able to say this was an amicably reached settlement due to incompatibility.
On the first one above. You have to show him you let go, not just say it. Arsh, this is going to be hard but you have to try to be emotionless. Step away if you start to become emotional and then come back when composed. Words have no meaning and he will see right through it if it isn't the truth.
On the second, do not protect him from this. He IS abandoning his family. If he cannot live with that fact then maybe she should be making a different choice. Do not appease him, tell him that when people ask you will tell them that you were opposed to the D but that he insisted, and left. Protecting someone from the consequences of their actions does nothing for that person.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Arsh, I'm online very briefly but want to say two things -
I don't think you need to tell your husband that you have to let go or that you're letting go. You have no choice and he doesn't seem to care much about how you feel so I anticipate this won't really help much.
In terms of negotiating custody and finances I wouldn't say "it's up to him as to how he likes to proceed" or "he's free to do as he wishes" because this gives him all the power to take your children or push the finances in his favor. Maybe I'm misunderstanding? But it seems the only response if he's not cooperating would be to tell him mediation won't work and you'll need to proceed on to a contested divorce via lawyers to get this sorted out.
I hope these next steps go as well as possible for you. Any judge or court should be able to take into account the need for such young children to reside primarily with their mother if your husband chose to walk away to free himself from responsibility, if you can document his aggressive abusive behavior (maybe start doing voice recordings?), and considering your baby is probably still nursing and your toddler probably still needs assistance with getting dressed, toilet usage, etc...
Thanks Nicole, great advice, making notes To clarify when I said he is free to do as he wishes I meant since there is no agreement, mediation is not an option so he is free to proceed with D thru Ls or just drop the crazy idea, i m not explicitly saying any of this just leaving the ball in his court
Can the other veterans please help me DB vet my speech too?
Steve good point, I have to show let go and not say it, seems desperate when I read it now. I will at least try to act as if I have let go and will take the break as and when I feel I am getting too emotional for the discussion
Systemic abuse usually shows it's ugly head when the abuser isn't getting the control they need and want.
It is in the personality and character. Someone of great character would get out of an R or M with dignity and respect not abuse. Your WH is behaving in a seriously abusive way to get what he wants.
Eventually I think you will see this emerging over time.
The mask has fallen and you see him as he is. In future it won't be hidden as it is now unmasked.
Sadly you will have to manage your way out of this to get the best result for you and your family.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thanks Nicole, great advice, making notes To clarify when I said he is free to do as he wishes I meant since there is no agreement, mediation is not an option so he is free to proceed with D thru Ls or just drop the crazy idea, i m not explicitly saying any of this just leaving the ball in his court
Can the other veterans please help me DB vet my speech too?
I am not a vet but I have experience of this.
Please Google the high conflict institute. There are resources for court action in high conflict sitches.
You will need to know your financial bottom line and also to know the family resources.
This mediation is a BUSINESS meeting on the fins, you will need to keep emotions out of it. It isn't to discuss the emotions or whether you can R. It is for terms and you will need Fin INTEL.
It is not to persuade WH to change his mind, you are not mediating a reconciliation but a separation.
That's hard to know.
So you have to know your bottom line on custody, visitation, maintains a, housing.
A lot of it will be numbers.
I assume you know how a mediation is conducted?
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thanks V, I will look up high conflict institute and educate myself if it seems to pertain to my sitch. In my case, I have been managing most of the finances, I have run the household, made investments so I am actually aware of where each penny is, we have different accounts but there is nothing that he can hide from me there. We were a couple involved since college days so we have shared everything since we each started making any money at all. So I am not worried that he can cheat me financially. Custody is an emotional topic for me as a mother so keeping strong during that discussion is a challenge for me. I have a nursing infant and a just potty trained toddler, they are not independent in any sense of the word. Plus the whole breakdown of the MR is another sore point like for everyone else here. But I can only get through this if I keep emotions out. WAH will obviously want to discuss details before mediation, unless we reach some agreement I will not even go to the mediation. The only reason I am entertaining this is to see if I can get something good out of this mess for my daughters instead of fighting it in court. He is being quiet and kind since he set up the mediation appointment, he is worried I may not go to mediation if he irritates me too much so there is peace right now. How the WASs can become such selfish slithering snakes its hard to imagine.
Arsh, I admire you because facing your husband in mediation to discuss ending the marriage has to be the hardest thing in the world. Your approach all sounds and you have the right goals. Honestly until your kids are older I don't see how your husband can get any custody at all. How cruel is that to force a nursing infant to spend 40% of her time away from her mother!???
