She is a grown woman who has to put her big girl pants on.
You can't put them on for her
V
You are absolutely correct. I know it too. I've known it for a long time. Every once in a while I get hit with those feelings, but they are fewer and farther between...
Strange thing happened today after my last couple of posts. Went to check my email and there was some random Quora email with a link about narcissist discard. I decided to read it and went down the rabbit hole of narcissistic personalities and realationships with them. And Dear Lord... did it ever hit home. I'm no psychologist by any means, but the similarities were astonishing. Made me realize that my W as I knew her will probably never be back, and it would be most beneficial to me and my kids to cut ties and move along. And it sure as heck will make it a lot easier to avoid getting stuck in the frame of thinking that she can be helped by anything I do. Looking back at my sitch, it's just too creepy and uncanny how close she fits the description of NPD...
Me: 38 W:31 Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4 M: 10 years T:12 years BD:Jan 3, 2018 W moved out: Apr 13,2018 Filed for D: Jun 2018 D final: Sep 2019
Careful, you need a psychologist to diagnoise NPD. It's like a horoscope could fit anyone who reads it.
Instead say she is abusive by analysing her behaviour not her character. It doesn't really matter what type of disorder she has or even if it's co morbid. If she is abusive and it's been there throughout (systemic) then it's an R you need out of. These abusers rarely change, and certainly it takes a very long time.
I trust you have read the abuse thread?
The way to deal with this type of abuser is NC.
My thoughts
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Careful, you need a psychologist to diagnoise NPD. It's like a horoscope could fit anyone who reads it.
I am aware. That's why I made the comment that I am not a psychologist. But damn... it blows my mind how well the glove fits...
Originally Posted By: Vanilla
Instead say she is abusive by analysing her behaviour not her character. It doesn't really matter what type of disorder she has or even if it's co morbid. If she is abusive and it's been there throughout (systemic) then it's an R you need out of. These abusers rarely change, and certainly it takes a very long time.
I've always been hesitant to say she was abusive, but after looking at her long term behavior, I've dealt with a lot. The woman can't tell the truth to save her life. And manipulation is her number one talent. I've caught myself justifying her bad behavior for years. I guess because I didn't want to believe that she was that way. I've cleaned up so many of her messes over the years and still been made out to be the bad guy only later to be told that I was the greatest thing since sliced bread...
Originally Posted By: Vanilla
I trust you have read the abuse thread?
The way to deal with this type of abuser is NC.
I think I may have stumbled across it once. I will have to see if I can find it again. NC has been working wonders for me. I have refused to play her games, and it has driven her crazy. She just keeps upping the ante, and I continue to refuse to be dealt a hand. She's gonna have to find someone else to play with...
Me: 38 W:31 Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4 M: 10 years T:12 years BD:Jan 3, 2018 W moved out: Apr 13,2018 Filed for D: Jun 2018 D final: Sep 2019
Narcissism is very rampant in American society. Me first.
Dr. Laura regularly talks about this. Me me me me. Lots of mothers get to a certain age and suddenly couldn't care less about their families. It is becoming an epidemic. Much of it is rooted in modern feminism. Regardless, narcissistic is one of the best descriptions for this phenomenon.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
you accurately call it a rabbit hole. this is true.
I found resources like Quora before i found DB, so i was still SUPER raw, in shock and hurting, and it all really did fit like a glove.
I agree on not becoming a keyboard diagnostician, and though I am personally convinced my WW has some sort of Cluster B Personality Disorder Cocktail (Anti-Social/Borderline?Narcissist) I am not qualified to quantify my hypothesis at all.
She will need to get to a point where she seeks help herself and goes to receive such a diagnosis, and whatever applicable treatment that goes with it.
Some takeaways i had from researching NPD and BPD
Remorse, Regret, Guilt and Responsibility for actions - They lack the capacity to feel these things. We cannot expect them.
She is far more damaged than the damage she caused. I pity the way she must internally live her life. it must be exhausting and miserable.
Looking back, i missed SO MANY red flags of the Love-Bomb, Devalue, Discard cycle, not only in my R but others before mine as well.
If a person has NO "lifers" or really old friends, and very few family members they get along with, there is likely a reason.
Once you decode the minutia of a WW's personality traits, her behavior becomes somewhat predictable.
"the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior"
Here is the cardinal rule i learned.
It. Was. Not. Your. Fault. EVER.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
This is good as long as you don't try to say that you are perfect. We all can improve. As people. As employees. As spouses. The key is to learn from it and move forward.
One of things I have found is that there are red flags along the way. Limerance makes us over look that. mtb, you even said she had periods of seeking the kind of attention she is currently seeking. Red flag. OK in your sitch you point out things that your W has in her past that point to the things you mention above.
So while it isn't "your" fault, there were points where better decisions could have been made. Even if it was the mistake of getting her pregnant before we really knew her. Or marrying her before we really knew her. Or blatantly ignoring red flags because well we were in love!
The point is that all of our sitches can be learned from. If you were an absent, neglectful, selfish H like I was for many years, then the learning is that treating any R like that will lead to its breakdown.
Their actions are owned by them. But we can learn from the mistakes we've made.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Me: 38 W:31 Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4 M: 10 years T:12 years BD:Jan 3, 2018 W moved out: Apr 13,2018 Filed for D: Jun 2018 D final: Sep 2019
This is good as long as you don't try to say that you are perfect. We all can improve. As people. As employees. As spouses. The key is to learn from it and move forward.
One of things I have found is that there are red flags along the way. Limerance makes us over look that. mtb, you even said she had periods of seeking the kind of attention she is currently seeking. Red flag. OK in your sitch you point out things that your W has in her past that point to the things you mention above.
So while it isn't "your" fault, there were points where better decisions could have been made. Even if it was the mistake of getting her pregnant before we really knew her. Or marrying her before we really knew her. Or blatantly ignoring red flags because well we were in love!
The point is that all of our sitches can be learned from. If you were an absent, neglectful, selfish H like I was for many years, then the learning is that treating any R like that will lead to its breakdown.
Their actions are owned by them. But we can learn from the mistakes we've made.
I agree Steve, i have learned a great deal about Who i am, what flaws i have that a re dangerous to a R, and how i need to manage them in the future. I have learned a lot about what to look out for as far as red flags, and about the strength of will i would need to bring those red flags up in a situation where I was falling in love, and in danger of being blinded by limerence.
Limerence i think is a KEY component about WW's that is not heavily discussed here. Especially around the 30 year old mark. Look how many newbie men we have on the board around age 30 with a WW that has just completely checked out. Your analysis of this as an "Epidemic" is not inaccurate.
Just a little FYI on "Getting her pregnant before i knew her" Please bear in mind not only was i told she was on BC pills, i was actually actively checking to see if they were being taken properly after the first pregnancy that was terminated without my consent. She was literally taking the pills out of the package and throwing them away. She refused to use more traditional contraception as she said they were "uncomfortable and smelly", not disagreeing, and being in a monogamous (as far as i knew) relationship, with other BC methods in place i felt i was being a responsible sexual partner. **Sorry for the Minor Hijack MTB**
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
