WAW or WW? What should I do to save my MR.

[hongaku]

I would also agree that it is not the time to be giving gifts. It will most likely just make her angry.

[AnotherStander]

I think I have been following my instincts too much on this matter rather than my rational part.

DB'ing is counter-intuitive. In a HEALTHY relationship when something goes wrong then the "fix" is to apologize, buy flowers, go out on a date, etc. In other words, pursue. So after we get BD'd we naturally fall back to what we know, which is pursuit behavior. Then when that doesn't work, we double down on the pursuit thinking we're just not doing enough of it. But all that pressure and pursuit just keeps driving them farther and farther away. DB'ing is the OPPOSITE of pursuit. When you quit applying pressure then the WAS no longer has to run. The idea right now isn't to get her back, it's to give her time and space so she doesn't feel like she has to run. With time hopefully she'll want to come back, but that's down the road.

IC suggests to earn W back by love. IC's point is that W's love tank has been empty, thus I should try my best to fill it. Not sure if this conflicts with the general DB approach here.

Have you read the 5 Love Languages? If not then please do. The "love tank" concept actually comes from that book. There are ways to fill your W's love tank without it being pursuit, for example if her LL is "Words of Affirmation" then you can start working compliments into your daily conversations. Just as an example that may or may not apply, maybe she is helping S with his homework, you might say "thank you for helping him with that, you are a really caring mother and I respect that." An example of WoA that IS pursuit might be something like "wow you sure look sexy in that dress!" See the difference?

She said we should've not gotten the child (because we are not good enough). This is her general attitude, passive and self blame. The new thing is she starts blaming now as well. I responded saying that the statement she made was not fair to our S, to me, and especially to herself, that she has been a wonderful mom (she truly was).

That is not the proper response. Did you read Cadet's links to the "validation" threads? Go back and read up on validation. She is expressing FEELINGS and her FEELINGS are hers, they are NOT wrong. So when you tell her "no, you're a wonderful mom" (which is fine as WoA in the above context, but not in the context of her sharing her feelings) you are inadvertently DISAGREEING with her feelings, you are telling her she's WRONG. Instead, you should seek to UNDERSTAND her feelings and offer empathy. "It sounds like you are upset about this, is that how you feel?" "Yes, it is depressing." "I am sorry you are feeling depressed, is there anything I can do to help?" The difference is you are not agreeing/ disagreeing/ negotiating/ explaining/ reasoning. You are simply acknowledging. That's what validation is.

[Wyoung]

I would also agree that it is not the time to be giving gifts. It will most likely just make her angry.

hongaku, Thanks for the input. I agree with you in general. However, in my case, at the beginning, I've made some promises to her for things like this. There was once a rather negligible holiday when I forgot to prepare anything. She pointed out later that night through text that I was not able to keep my words. So I think I better make it consistent.

[Wyoung]

AS, again very insightful comments.

On the LL

We've both read the book at the beginning of the BD. At that time, W was less resistant to work together. After reading the book, I asked her what her main LL is. She doesn't want to reveal that to me. In on fallout, she mentioned that her main LL is "Words of Affirmation". She is not very self-confident, and when facing complements, she would reject it. This is rather typical in east Asian culture. Since then, I paid special attention to always compliment her when there is a chance. But it's probably too oblivious to her what I am doing. She also said that her "love tank" is not only empty but has gone. So there is nowhere to fill... That really made me desperate.


On the validation

If that particular case, if I validate her feelings, then I am doing the opposite of "Words of Affirmation", no? In my past experience with her, she will often times say something very negative about herself, in the hope (implicitly or subconsciously) that I will say something opposite. So it's really different. And I am not sure the perfect approach here, with her type of personality.

[Wyoung]

One the way to the flight. W was awfully quite on the last day. I did not initiate any conversation, but only responded her and tried to validate. One month apart might help cool things down. From multiple arguments we had before, I learned that W is not determined to divorce legally. She is certainly not in love with me for now, but she probably doesn't know what to do yet, other than keep separated in the house. When I recall the entire process, it seems I have only been making things worse. W's attitude was much better and warmer right after BD than now. The begging, crying and reasoning really did some damage. Hopefully that's still reversible.

Sandi's Rule #1 is sooo important!

[Wyoung]

Son and I have traveled abroad for a week now. I did leave a gift and a short letter before I left and she found it and accepted it. She texted me saying she received the gift and letter, and thanked me for making the effort.

Now it's been a week, the contact was minimal. She checked us when we just arrived the destination through video chat. And then text me saying it seems we are doing okay and she will start enjoying her "single life" (she used the quote). Then the contact has been very minimal. she doesn't even check about our S as if she doesn't even miss the S at all. She doesn't contact her parents much either, which has been very abnormal relative to the past. She seems to be isolating herself from everyone. I keep reminding myself that I need to have infinite patience and give her time and space, which has been so hard. I thought being away will help me to calm, but every night, I literally got waked up by the pain in my hurt. I miss her so much.

I have been wondering about two things. (1) should I text her and let her know that S is doing great and hope she is enjoying her "single life"? This will make her more comfortable and show that I am supportive. On the other hand, I was hoping us being away will maybe remind her of the family time, so I should not initiate contact. (2) Is it common that a WAW will show coldness and distance not only to the H but also to the child (and her parents)? I can understand the parents part, because her parents are very against her mindset and she sensed tremendous pressure. However I can never understand how she can manage to leave our S behind.

[TBSakaJ9]

Do not text her that. Do not Initiate contact

[hongaku]

Do not text her anything unless it is for a very specific emergency related reason. Do not initiate any contact that is not absolutely necessary. You need to give her as much physical and emotional space as possible right now. If she wants to communicate, she will reach out to you.

As for waking up every night, I haven't had a full night of sleep since January 29, 2018 because of my sitch. I fall asleep, I dream, my wife is there in the dream almost always and when she is not, it is still a nightmare and I wake up in tears, pain, fear and sadness. Every night for the past 5 months. I dread going to sleep now. Hopefully you will not experience the same, but I can tell you that you will probably have more nights like that in your future before your sitch is resolved. Fear and pain are powerful things.

I know it seems impossible, but you have to let go and put your feelings to the side for right now. I cannot yet do this either, but I know it can be done and it is a key part of DBing. You cannot fix your W, she has to make her own choices. You can only control you. Be there for your son right now. Be present for him and those you are visiting abroad. Live in the now and let your W have her time completely alone.

[Wyoung]

hongaku. Thank you so much for the advice and sharing you feelings. I am sorry that how much pain you (and me and many others on this board) are going through. Morning is the hardest time. I usually weak up so depressed and that will last until noon. Then I slowly become more positive through the day. But tomorrow it's another round again. It's an endless loop. I guess the pain is a necessity for growth, but this is too much. I need to translate the pain and fear to the strength for becoming a better husband and father.

But how could she just leave everyone out, her own son included. She's built a wall around her.

[LoneWlf]

hongaku- WW/WAW are really selfish people only worried about themselves. They cannot think properly- as sandi says their brains are scrambled eggs. Most W leave their families thinking that the grass is greener on the other side when they should just water and maintain the grass that they are on. Hopefully what will happen after you give your wife time and space - she will see will continue to have those feelings of negativity and resentment and look to displace them on you. Because you are not there to place blame on- this may force her to look to herself to why she is unhappy.They can run away from you but they can't run away from themselves. For my sich my W has left and has very little contact with me and my S. She has seen and talked with him for less than 3 hours in a month and a half. I would not be able to handle this if it were me. This would equate to a slow death. I would want/need contact and connection if not updates about my S. How my W functions I do not know. She has this journey she needs to do on her own. Blessings on your journey!