Affair, no feelings...is there hope? V

[sandi2]

It didn't go as well as I'd hoped. As I kind of expected, she didn't initiate the conversation. I let her settle in and eat and then I initiated, leading with the boundary talk. That went over fine and she mostly agreed. She cried and said she knew she was a "bully" (her words). She agreed I was right to ask for no further disrespect and that it can't continue. Also, she had no problem with no private inappropriate relationships.

Frankly, it all went fine except for the part where it came to willingness. She couldn't tell me she wanted to go all in to try to save the MR. She said she felt like I was giving an ultimatum. She said she didn't know if things could be fixed. Yes, it sounds great to start fresh, but you can't just shove all the old stuff out the door. She is very afraid of going back to the same old cycle and being stuck in an unhappy MR. I made it clear the old MR was dead and I didn't want that back either. She just didn't get how we could build something new on top of rubble. She talked about how she didn't know if she could just get rid of all her resentment, she can't control her feelings.

I don't think she thinks it is possible to regain attraction and feelings. She cried and cried, went on about how she didn't know how to let go and was really struggling with the idea of divorce. I told her there were no promises or expectations, she just needed to be willing to try. I really don't understand why she can't do that. She claims she doesn't want to prolong a bad thing, but then says she struggles with divorce and wasn't rushing to go that route. She basically admitted that she doesn't want to lose my friendship and companionship. I told her I can't just give her the parts she wants and forget the rest. She said she feels she has lost all her independence and we had codependency issues and she doesn't even know who she is. She doesn't see a way to take a hard detour and get back from the wrong road we went down for so long (her words). She just feels something is missing. She craves intimacy and connection and doesn't see how it can be with me.

I copied part of the account of the confrontation when she had returned from her military trip. Did you state any boundaries to her? This part is the closet thing I could find that appeared as an agreement: She agreed I was right to ask for no further disrespect and that it can't continue. Also, she had no problem with no private inappropriate relationships.

She agreed you were right, but did she agree to stop her bullying and disrespectful treatment? Did she agree to NC with OM? You say she had no problem with it, so I assumed she agreed to it. But, she has not lived up to it. In that conversation, did you say there would be any consequences if she continued to contact OM? I just need to know where you stand now.

Back to your initial thread after returning from the vacation, you said:

There were a few hiccups...one instance she went full "bully" mode and said some very hurtful things, which she did apologize for but I don't think it was wholehearted. It's interesting she tries to use our ending MR as a threat, despite already having played that card.

Of course it wasn't wholehearted! It was to put you in a holding pattern.

How would you act toward her after she apologized? How did you respond when she would threaten to end the MR?

She knows exactly where it hurts, but at this point all I think is...she is only undermining herself and her previous threats.

Your thinking seems to be more of a coping strategy when she bullies you. This goes back to what I was trying to tell you yesterday. You are trying to work around the main issues of her bullying by thinking she is undermining herself. So what if she is undermining herself? She doesn't see it. She only sees a H who will not stand up to her bullying him. Telling her she is being rude, or that she owes you an apology is not strong enough. You can word it differently, and may have a little affect the first couple of times, but eventually you are going to need to deal with it by using actions.

We went to a theme park and from the very beginning, she was texting excessively. Background/update: I know she has contact with OM. 100% confirmed, but it isn't obsessive like before and I have no knowledge of the content of the messages. However, she is shady and secretive to the hilt.

In other words, she is not honoring any type of transparency, and you aren't holding her to it. Look 44, it makes absolutely no difference the content of her messages with OM....or how many times she contacts him. She is hiding her texts, and she's contacting him, which violates transparency.

She will verbally tell me to give her physical space while she is on her phone and accuse me of spying or watching her. Has changed her password, hides her phone while showering, covers it while typing if I am within view, etc.

This is not acceptable. The cheater does not get to do these things and continue on in the MR.....unless you are okay with having an open MR.

Anyway, at the theme park, my patience wore thin and I asked her if she was going to text all day (I know, bad move).

Yes, it was a bad move. Stop asking her questions like this, and start telling her if she is going to text all day, it will be without your company.....and you leave her there and go on with your day in the park, totally ignoring her for the rest of the day.

She gave some ridiculous speech about how she is an adult and it isn't rude, look at everyone else on their phones, back off, blah blah. So I did,

See how you are trying to make it sound "ridiculous"? This is part of your coping mechanism.

In the end, you backed off just as she told you, but you did not leave her. You would see that action being too rude. So, you continue to endure the disrespect.

then she accused me of sucking the fun out of the day and that I had ruined it.

Now this is her being manipulative. She can accuse you or twist things around to put the blame on you....make you feel guilty, and she knows you will bend over backward to retreat to your nice-guy ways. Remember, I said she will use the guilt card? This is an example of how she uses it to control you.

She says maybe she will "hit me up" when they go and I can join so I can "still be a part of their lives". I KNOW to ignore all of these nonsensical comments she makes,

This is another example of your coping mech. See how you refer to it as nonsensical comments? It was a continuation of her bullying tactics. She pulled the threat card to remind you she was the one in control of this MR. You try to brush it off and tell yourself it was just nonsensical comments. She knew full well she jabbed you with that comment. It had a purpose, and it was intentional.

I couldn't hold back when she called me shady. I basically told her what makes her assume I would want to go to DL or even be friends with her when in fact she is the one who is shady as he11. I told her I know she is still in contact with OM, has continued to lie and be completely insensitive and unapologetic.

44, I'm not trying to give you a hard time. This is all I have to use to illustrate. What you said to her is true. But it sounds weak. It sounds as if you are more upset that she has been insensitive and unapologetic, than the fact she is being secretive and engaging in an EA with OM. Let me put it this way. It is not about her having good manners. It is about her cheating. She doesn't get to text OM, and then just apologize for it.

I have noticed when you try to stand up to her, you use the "rude" word a lot. "Rude" and "apologize". These two words mean nothing to a WW. She is calloused. She is not sensitive to your feelings. You are expecting a bully to be sensitive and mannerly? I strongly suggest that you temporarily remove these two words from your vocabulary when speaking with her. They don't seem to be very effective.

Of course, she got very defensive saying things like I am assuming and it's not what I think, etc.

That was the perfect time to say, "If it is not what I think, then you'll have no problem letting me see your phone".

This was the point you should have held her accountable. She had said the day of confrontation she had no problem with "no private, inappropriate relationships". So, why did you allow this to just slide?

Yesterday she moped around the house, surprisingly wasn't rude to me but so over-the-top with her pouting. She actually got a deck of cards out to play solitaire in the living room.

And what is your go-to plan when she pouts and has a pity party b/c you left the house to do something with some friends the day before? This is another form of her playing the guilt card. She wanted to make you feel badly.

I really struggle with the fact that she resents me and has so much hurt, because I know I am not perfect and have probably done some very hurtful things, but I feel with her being wayward I am not supposed to have remorse or apologize for anything.

This resentment of hers does not necessarily mean it is merited. You don't even know what she wanted or what you did to make her resentful. The resentment/disrespect factors become enmeshed after a point. Just b/c a W is resentful, does not mean the H is guilty of anything. Please get that in your head.

Here's the thing I see in you. You are trying to change positions and put yourself in the role as abuser. For you, it would be so much easier if you could be the one at fault, b/c you would have no problem with remorse and apologizing for doing whatever. You want to take the place of the bad guy. If you were the abuser, and she was wanting out of that situation, then she would be a walk-away W. She is clearly not a WAW. Sorry, but you just aren't the bad guy in this case. You are too nice, too gentle, and too passive for this military WW. She likes to control you, and she'll stoop to whatever level necessary to do it.

I understand I need to regain her respect which may breed attraction, but how will that wash away her resentment when I have not sincerely owned my mistakes and given her a formal apology? The book describes how compassion is the only antidote; I am trying to find that balance of being compassionate toward her but also intolerant to her disrespect. It is tricky!

The book is not about wayward wives! Please, just put it down b/c it is scr@wing with your head. You are not an abuser! She has a wayward mindset. You cannot apologize away that waywardness. Do you get that? You still want to use a form of nicing her back by being sweet, understanding, compassionate, etc. Those are wonderful traits in a MR.....but it just won't cut it with a WW.

Actually, I think it was the talk we had when she came home that really set me back.

No, that's not what set you back. Not following through with actions, set you back.