Thanks LH. I do appreciate you are trying to stop me making a mistake here, and keeping my options open. And I can see all the arguments for not speaking with her, because they are what's stopped me initiating pretty much for the last month or so.
From my understanding, if she files first, she takes control of the process and I pay costs. If I file (and it would be for adultery), it's the opposite. The story to the kids will just be that we are separating because we don't feel the same about each other anymore - they won't need to know at this stage who filed first. If they do find out, well I'll just explain that actually it doesn't really matter who files - it was a mutual decision and we agreed I would file. They are at some point in the future going to know what their mother did and how she treated me, and at that point they'll understand fully why I did what I did.
Let me sleep on it. I get that there's probably only one outcome from the conversation, but from what I see that's happening anyway and she is being incredibly hurtful and disrespectful prolonging my agony whilst she gets herself 100% ready to push the button (in terms of legal advice, house-buying, whatever).
_______________________________________________ M47 W50 T-21 yrs M-19 Yrs S17 S15 D12 Found out about A 04/12/18 BD 04/15/18 Admitted A, name of AP and separate rooms 04/29/18 Told kids 07/22/18
Go get L advice and take that advice. Cards chest close.
Never lie or pretend with kids. Use age appropriate language and answer questions. For all you think they know, they do. Kids know who is the wayward one. Lying to them even by omission creates cognitive dissonance and leaves kids dangling not believing the key adults in their lives.
Adults lie to kids for reasons adults lie. Not to protect their kids. Of course kids aren't involved in R or M or D discussions. But secrecy is not the answer nor is pretending things aren't as they are.
You create lots of kids problems if you involve them or if you get in the way of their R with the other parent. Most kids at 9 or 10 and beyond can manage their own R with mum and dad. If it's an abuse sitch it's different of course.
Those are my thoughts on it.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Ok.. it would be a British understatement to say that today was quite eventful. I'm sure I'm going to get a whole load of abuse and "I told you so's" from the experts, but anyway, here goes.
Having slept on it overnight, I decided in the end to initiate a discussion with my W this morning. I told her that whilst I had been patient and not initiated discussion as I promised her, it had been 2 weeks since we last talked, so asked if she could give me an update on how she is feeling given how we left it last was that she would explore her intimacy issues with our CC and also speak to her mother for advice. My goal was to illicit information to help me prep for what I thought from all the signs was the initiation of the D process on her side.
She said she was going out but yes we could chat when she came back in a couple of hours. And so we did. For 2+ hours.
To my surprise, tears flowed on her side as she explained that she is still undecided, so conflicted, and goes from being sure she wants to separate to not being ready to destroy all that we have together, and that's why she hasn't been able to initiate a conversation with me. She said had we been been arguing incessantly or actually didn't like being in each others company it would have been easier, but that's not the case, and she is simply going round in circles and can't see how she is ever going to be able to decide.
She explained that she had seen our CC as we had discussed, and that the outcome of that session what the CC felt it was unlikely she would ever regain the feeling of desire for me given it had been missing for so long (10+ years). And this being the case, my W came out of the session sure that we should separate, even though that was scary, full of the unknown particularly around future financial stability given she has very low earning potential having not been in full time work for many years.
But then she said that people she confides in (her sister, her friend) do say that they know lots of people in her shoes who felt the same, but could live with this situation and be 'content' if not fully fulfilled, and this made my W question whether she was just being selfish and self-centred, destroying everything we have together just for this need to find a 'spark' again (as she puts it).
She said with me not travelling so much at the moment she's finding it so hard to be at home with me. She feels claustrophobic and suffocated, simply with me being in my home office (which is some distance from her own), and she just needs her space. I said this was fixable if we chose it to be with me getting an office away from the house. And even the lack of spark was something we could work on if she wanted. But she said no, she couldn't ever see that spark coming back. Not nice to hear, but she was pretty unequivocal.
I validated her frustration saying it must be difficult to decide, but this was something she needed to do because this whole situation was driven by her, not me. I then took the opportunity to say that although I can see she is struggling with the indecision, what I didn't understand was how on the one hand she was trying desperately to make a decision about our R, and on the hand still merrily carrying on her other R with the OM. I said no matter how discrete she thinks she being, I am aware that this is going on and given we are still married and living together this was totally disrespectful and not something I would tolerate further. It was 'taking the p1ss'.
This seemed to make her angry that I somehow knew what she was up to, but I didn't let her dwell on it, and simply said the current situation was simply not acceptable, fair or in any way respectful. So if she did want to carry on her relationship with the OM (which I said was up to her), this in itself was indicative that she did not want our M to continue, and I said in that case I would not let her to remain in the house. The usual silence followed upon mention of the OM, which I then pointed out to her was further validation of which way she was feeling. She did say that this was not a decision about whether to be in R with me or with OM, and that actually she was clear that she did not want have a R or future with him (so, if I am to believe what she is saying this was clearly just for the spark/thrill/sexual gratification), and actually she just wanted space - will definitely not get married again nor want to live with any future partner (if she found one). It is just how she is wired. She needs her own space. Period.
After an hour of this, it became very clear at least to me that she really had no desire to stay in the M for me personally (only for what we had together, and for the kids). And that she had no hope or expectation of being able to rekindle the spark we once had between us (as it was very long gone). For me this is a deal-breaker. Add to that that she was seemingly unwilling to consider ceasing her relationship with the OM, I then played all that back to her, and when she heard it from my mouth it became clear what she should decide. In her words, she should just 'man up', and we should separate. And that was that. Her decision was seemingly made.
That seemed to relieve the tension on both sides, and for the next hour we talked about living arrangements, lawyers, kids. We shared views on our R history - good times and bad. She 'spewed' a little at me, I validated as planned. She said she really wanted us to come out of this as friends and be in each others lives always - for us and for the kids. I said that might be possible in the future but I am still dealing with the hurt of the last year or so, so would have to see. I also suggested she should move out because really that's what she wanted, as did I, particularly if she really wouldn't stop seeing the OM. She said she'd explore this with her L as they had previously told her not to, but understood from me that there was no legal reason for her to be concerned.
I do feel a sense of calm, some kind of control for seeing a clear path forward, but can't help feeling I knowingly took shared responsibility for the decision that was made, and maybe this was making things too easy for her when she was really struggling and torn. Maybe I could have gone on without giving her an out, but in her own words, she couldn't see how she was ever going to get out of the cycle. Yet I know from everything she said to me that really she has nothing but platonic feelings for me and can't see that changing as it's in been that way for so long. So to me, this was delaying the inevitable and we are both happier for it. At the moment.
I thought perhaps that if/when we do separate and reality sets in when she finally gets what she says she wants which is a house of her own and her own space, she might have time to see what she is missing. At the moment this is her dream because it the opposite to what she has with me now, but maybe when it is real she may feel differently. Or she may not, but at least she'll know. And so will I.
Ok, over to you. Tell me your thoughts. Was I right to do this? Have I just enabled my wife's getaway too easily, even though I felt it was inevitable? Or could this strategy actually work in my favor if I now DB and let her deal with the next steps all by herself to take on the repercussions of this decision whilst I GAL and detach?
_______________________________________________ M47 W50 T-21 yrs M-19 Yrs S17 S15 D12 Found out about A 04/12/18 BD 04/15/18 Admitted A, name of AP and separate rooms 04/29/18 Told kids 07/22/18
Thanks Hongaku. I really appreciate the support and positive validation. I never really know if how to play these situations but it felt right in the moment, and as I've reflected on it, still feels right.
Would appreciate peoples thoughts on how best to play the next few days though. We agreed to let our decision settle for a while and then speak again. Probably Monday. How should I behave in that time, noting of course that whilst the kids are around I'm still having to be as normal as possible?
Should I be back to full LRT and detaching? Would seem odd to her as we did get on well together yesterday for me suddenly not talk to her, but maybe that's what she needs - she wants space, she gets space and I do my thing.
I also don't know what she'll do with the OM thing. I know I shouldn't focus on it - I've said my piece, if she had any kind of respect for me, she'd stop for the time being. But I don't believer for one second that she will, and that unfortunately still gets to me a lot. Makes me feel sick actually. But I can't raise it again for a while - she needs to deal with it. Particularly if she does want to be friends as she says. Friends don't treat each other like dirt, which is what she's being doing to me.
What advice would give in respect of the OM thing?
_______________________________________________ M47 W50 T-21 yrs M-19 Yrs S17 S15 D12 Found out about A 04/12/18 BD 04/15/18 Admitted A, name of AP and separate rooms 04/29/18 Told kids 07/22/18
Hi 40 Sounds like you handled it well. Just a heads up though - she more than likely will carry on with the OM and you will play this conversation over in your head in the future thinking that you pushed her away more and regret that you dont see her everyday- its better that its not in front of you now I think this will help you detach and get out of this limbo. Dont believe what she says. My W was telling me that she just wanted space and did not have feelings for OM anymore- even the day she was walking out the door and keeping the peace- looking back though it was just so W could get what she wanted from the house and to improve her living standards and then jumped in full R with OM. As soon as she was all set up she cut off all communication and became a monster so beware. Even though you feel like progress has been made still stick with GAL and LRT and detach. Let her go and dont be helpful about it.
Me=32 W=29 R=12 yrs M=7 yrs BD 02/18/18 Dd=3 S=6 Other man confirmed 06/10/18
Hi 40, first time writing to you. Sorry for where you are now but you must regain the respect, you did it well. I was a WW husband years ago. Looking for freeedom, watering the green grass with OW. I found nothing at all. Did my inner voyage to find myself so here I am back with my W and S and piecing.
Don't believe what she says. My W was telling me that she just wanted space and did not have feelings for OM anymore- even the day she was walking out the door and keeping the peace- looking back though it was just so W could get what she wanted from the house and to improve her living standards and then jumped in full R with OM.
Raw - thanks for taking the time to feedback, and for reassurance that I probably handled this ok. I hope you're right. But you are definitely right that I shouldn't believe what she says. And I don't. Particularly about the OM, but as you know, there's not much I can do about it, especially once she's out of the door. She does say she wants space, and actually this has been a common theme for a long time, so I do believe that part, and she'll get that. But with space also comes the ability to sleep with who she wants and when she wants, which I'm sure is also in her mind, knowing what I know about her and WAWs. I suppose the same applies for me too, eventually, but I'm not in the frame of mind yet.
I will certainly push on with my GAL, and feel a renewed vigour towards that now I have some certainty that this is absolutely happening.
I will let her go for sure, and although my nice guy syndrome means I'm instinctively predisposed to be helpful towards her, I will try my hardest to let her do this all alone. It's hard - I do still love her and care for her, but know that this is really her choice and actually she wants to and has to manage without me.
_______________________________________________ M47 W50 T-21 yrs M-19 Yrs S17 S15 D12 Found out about A 04/12/18 BD 04/15/18 Admitted A, name of AP and separate rooms 04/29/18 Told kids 07/22/18
