Not sure what to do. . .can anyone help?

[mbe76]

Did the OM pick her up at your house, or you just knew she was meeting him?

I knew she was meeting him, as when I said I would need to move my car, she said "don't bother he's picking me up" this was later confirmed by a mutual friend who said there FB green dot was last active at the same time.

if you are going to GAL without giving her details and telling her when you will be home.......then why would you ask questions about her, and then tell her what you'll do if she comes home late again? Did you not say you got the kids bathed and into bed at night? Were you in bed asleep and had to let her in the door? She doesn't have her own key? Although what she's doing is not acceptable, your approach to her appeared like a double standard. My suggestion would be to turn out all the lights and be fast asleep when she came home. If you are sleeping on the couch, this might be a good time to snooze in your comfy bed in the MBR. Don't wake up when she comes home. Don't drill her. Who ever comes home late gets the couch, otherwise share the bed.

Yes, I get that now.

This is simple a suggestion, that rather than raising your voice loud enough to get the children's attention, you excuse yourself (if necessary) and walk the kids a little farther away so as to be out of ear shot of their mother. Calmly but sternly tell them this is to the place or time to run & play with loud voices, but you all will be leaving shortly and then they will have a chance to use all that bottled up energy.

If your W makes snide remarks about it........then you need to put on your thinking cap, and maybe recruit ideas from other men here in what to do to figuratively put duct tape across her mouth. Now, my H could shut me up by just giving me a hard look. But something tells me it might take more than just a hard look from you, to shut her trap in front of the kids. (Maybe put head phones on each of them as you are putting seat belts on them........so they don't hear what you'll say to their Mother

That is a good idea- I think what I said above is an idea- simply take her fuel away by saying with few words and let my actions talk.

If she displays bad treatment toward you in front of the kids and/or other adults just to push your buttons and get an angry reaction from you........then the goal would be to let Mr. Cool show up. However, calmly telling her what you have to say and walking away.........doesn't seem to be working. Give me an example of what you calmly said to her Sunday and then walked away.

I said "I will not be shouted at in Public by you, change your tone" I then gave her a look and walked away- it seemed to have a modicum of success- bc when she then followed me to the car- she just sulked and never said a word all the way home.

I can picture two scenarios. One guy sounds subdued, and she is not attracted to him. In fact, she acts out worst the next time, b/c she hates how he responds to it. He will explain how the kids were too loud and what he was trying to do, etc. He relates his disappointment for her lack of support, and how her obvious disrespect makes him feel. He may remembers something in DBing about validating......so he makes an attempt to validate her. Then he retreats to a place of safety. Does this scenario familiar? If it resembles your response, I don't think it is effective.

The other scenario I picture is guy who is so cool and sharp (lTo be clear, like James Bond cool and sharp) with his voice volume lowered, he can lean in closer......say one sentence, turn around and leave her upstanding there speechless. Now, if you are the second guy........then you have to be pretty clever with your words. This guy doesn't explain what (or why) he was trying to do with the kids earlier. He doesn't bring his feelings into it. This is about her show of bad behavior and disrespect to him. It is no longer about what he was doing with the kids or his previous intentions. Understand this, b/c the man knows "explaining" the whys and what's of his intentions earlier makes absolutely no difference---after she chose to berate him. But how many H's ate as cool as James Bond? Hummmm ;)k

So now my question to you.......how do you see your WW reacting as you turn and nonchalantly walk away? Would she go after you, ready to verbally rip you apart? Would she bang and throw things around, may yell things back at you......but not follow you around? B/c the goal is not to antagonize her into worse behavior. It's to make her think of how it looks in front of others.

As below- if I take away her "captive audience" she will have no one to spew at, so I will let her know I am not happy, and then walk away.

But, you can control a great deal of what she does to you........once you learn how to use effective boundaries.

This is something I am struggling with.

I will not allow her to shout or disrespect me again and in terms of a response-

Before you make that type of statement out loud to her, you have to know how you will stop her from doing it again. B/c you just said you could not control her. So, how do you enforce this boundary? You can run away from every thing she does to humiliate, belittle, and disrespect you. This is your W. You should know her well enough to know what would work best.

I am now seeing it like the fire triangle- you know- to have a fire you need Ignition + Fuel + Oxygen, in her case to belittle me or berate me, she uses Behaviour + Action + Emotion = Response- I can choose to take 2 of those out of the equation- I will in future take action by stating quietly why she is out of order, and I will then walk away- even if I want to say something else- I think stern silence and a look then walk away will work- certianly worth trying. Her Oxygen in that sitution is my reaction.

In the meantime, if you knew this would be as good as it ever gets, and she continued seeing OM.........would you still want to fight for the MR?

I want to fight for it, but not at any cost. I am beginning to realise that if she continues to carry on in this behaviour (and it seems like she is trying to drive me out of the house) then I will have to move on. I have a plan in mind and on paper, and I am giving it a specified timeframe.

I am not qualified to give you the answers to these type of questions. IMHO, it required knowing where you stand legally. Since she has called to cops when you tried to take your own children.......you might go to the police office and ask who to speak to about it. It might, also, alert them that you are concerned at what lengths your W could take, and you want to protect your kids. Explain what she does with the kids, and prevents you leaving with them. Knowing the law where you live is very important, especially when you are living with a woman like you've described. You might research child services and what happens if they are ever called. I doubt it would be the most preferred route, but you can just read about it. As I've said previously, you don't want to turn this into a worse situation, but the more you tell us about her........the more it sounds like she has some emotional/mental issues. You have to protect your children, first.

She hasn't actually called the cops, but threatened it.

So, continue the week working on those 3 short goals. Keep updating throughout the week.

I will.

Little update: I GAL last night with an old male friend, and sought him as he is decent man with a family himself and is able to give perspective, but as part of the No More Mr Nice Guynominatedow my nomitated person to soundboard the activities from that resource.

Another little update:

I went to counseling today- My W went last week on her own- and has accused me of Domestic Violence- which at the top of the post you will see I have admitted in our arguments we would often end up shouting and then she would hit me and I would defend myself- but the MC said that shouting is now classed as DV. Inside I couldn't believe what I was hearing, yes, I have used really hurtful words and allowed resentment to build into passive-aggressive behavior- The MC said it wasn't about blame, but I was a little surprised it was called that- we were both guilty of unacceptable behaviour in our M. And I know words can really hurt- I do know that- but I never raised a hand to her- yet she felt it was OK to punch me bc it was the only way she knew "how to shut me up"

[sandi2]

I went to counseling today- My W went last week on her own- and has accused me of Domestic Violence- which at the top of the post you will see I have admitted in our arguments we would often end up shouting and then she would hit me and I would defend myself- but the MC said that shouting is now classed as DV. Inside I couldn't believe what I was hearing, yes, I have used really hurtful words and allowed resentment to build into passive-aggressive behavior- The MC said it wasn't about blame, but I was a little surprised it was called that- we were both guilty of unacceptable behaviour in our M. And I know words can really hurt- I do know that- but I never raised a hand to her- yet she felt it was OK to punch me bc it was the only way she knew "how to shut me up".

How would you defend yourself?

Are each of you seeing an individual counselor and then attend MC together.......or is the same counselor conducting all these sessions?

I do not have experience with DV, and should I ever make a suggestion that you question or think it could be seen from that point of view........please bring it to my attention.

It appears you feel as if a double standard is being used in your situation. My advice is to protect yourself. Whenever certain words become part of the dialog you are hearing.......like, calling the police, DV, etc., consider it a warning. Protect yourself and talk to an attorney before you find yourself in a worse situation.

And before I make my next statement, I don't want anyone to misunderstand and think I am defending any sort of violence or abuse. Considering that your W has physically attacked you, did you feel that your words were the only way of fighting back........or, were you using cruel words in arguments before that day when she hit you? Before getting M, had that always been the way you defended yourself or "fought" with another person?

I said "I will not be shouted at in Public by you, change your tone" I then gave her a look and walked away- it seemed to have a modicum of success- bc when she then followed me to the car- she just sulked and never said a word all the way home.

Okay, then I misunderstood and thought she was talking down to you in front of the children on the way back home. So, actually, it sounded as though you handled it quite well. Let's examine it for a minute. Did any adults hear what you said to her? Why do you suppose she didn't get more aggressive or make a snide remark about your comment to her? Was it the sterness in your voice? What? It's fine for her to sulk and not say anything........just as long as you don't allow it to relent on what you told her.

In the past, how would she usually react to any particularly hurtful words you would say?

Did you call her names, belittle her, make accusations? Did she ever seem afraid when you raised your voice? Do you know if she witnessed DV growing up?

Men who have the NGS, are often passive-aggressive. And I think that was what I was aiming at, previously, when I was asking how you showed your anger. Would you say harsh words come easier than implementing tough actions? Have you ever been in any type of physical altercation with anyone?

When you were a child, how did you see your parents interact when they were angry......or how did they interact with you?

Has your counselor offered a solution as to how you need to interact with each other during a serious disagreement? And, is the MC aware of the A with OM?

I will wait until I read your answers, before saying anymore.

[mbe76]

So things have totally changed again- On Wednesday I was planning to meet a male freind to discuss the sitch- and I was due to meet him- and as the Children go to her mums for tea I went to say goodnight to them before I left as they wouldn't be home- when I got to her mums the OM was there with My WW and the children- this was a boundary we had discussed- i.e. in her own time I cannot control her- but I would not allow her to spend time with him in front of the Children until we had decided what we were doing and began to speak with the children. I knocked on the door and was threatened and assaulted and although I remained calm I wanted to see my children. My W said that after the Weekend she wanted a D anyway, I said that is her choice but we did agree about her not seeing the OM while my C were there- and she said it was none of my business. The OM then pushed past her and began to push me and threaten me, and I kept calm and turned and walked away as I could hear the C crying in the background. I then rang her to ask her what was going on, and he answered and threatened me and made accusations. Since then she has not called, text or engaged in any contact and is still at her parents while I am home. I saw the eldest 2 children yesterday for a few hours, and the little one for 5 minutes. I am now totally lost- and I don't think I would even want the M if she can do this to me I am so desperately down right now

[AnotherStander]

Very sorry you had to go through that! Next time OM lays hands on you then call the police, that is illegal and unacceptable.

Contact a lawyer ASAP. If your W is ignoring you she is basically preventing you from seeing the kids and that is not acceptable. You need to get a visitation agreement in place.

Also, at least for a while you may want to record every interaction you have with W, it may make good evidence if she fights you on a custody agreement.

[AnotherStander]

By the way, you can't prevent your W from having OM around the kids (unless you can demonstrate he is a danger to them). I'm not sure that was a valid boundary to begin with because it's not enforceable. As much as it [censored] you've got to figure out how to deal with it. It WOULD be a valid boundary to tell her she and OM are to NEVER lay hands on you again or you will call the police, because that IS enforceable.

[sandi2]

I completely agree with the avice Another Stander gave you. Remember, don't set boundaries to things you can't do anything about. Many H's have set boundaries about OM being around the kids.....but unless you can show a reason they aren't safe and get a R.O., I don't think there is much you can do about him being there. It stinks, but that is the way it is.

But if you set that as a boundary, what action can you take to protect yourself? About the only thing left to do.....and save face, is to follow Another Stander's suggestions. Otherwise, prepare to become a punching bag for both WW & OM!

You have to get a lawyer and get legal suport to have your kids. Don't talk to OM, and don't take his and WW's threats and assault. Don't discuss anything with her face to face, since that incident. Prefably an email would be better, IMHO. But, you don't have take her physical assault anymore. If you have to get the police involved, so be it.

If her parents will intervene and help transfer the children between you and WW, by meeting you some place away from the house and without the WW (and possibly the OM) included, it would protect you and the children from those types of scenes.

So sorry you are going through this mess. ((hugs))

Please keep us posted.

[sandi2]

How are you doing today? Hope to hear something soon. Take care of yourself.

[mbe76]

Hello Everyone,

Time for an update- so I was charged with assault (untrue) and also she made allegations of DV- which are also untrue- but as part of the bail conditions I was not allowed back to the MH. This was back in late March. All the charges were eventually dropped (thank God) but I am still at my parents house.

We then started to work together, tasking the children out and spending time as a family, and whilst we (as a couple) were distant, I was doing it for the children.

I made a decision not to discuss the future, I was waiting for her to initiate the conversation, but I had a deadline in my mind, she eventually agreed to discuss the future and told me she didn't want a D, so I asked her what he wanted. I was told her R with the OM was over, but I kept repeating the mantra "Don't believe anything she says, and only half of what she does" This was proved right, as a week or so later, his car was outside my house.

I then told her that I wanted to discuss the future, as I was still at my mums and I needed to sort out how much time the children would spend with me etc, I said I would not be a 3rd wheel in our marriage, when I confronted her, she said he turned up unannounced and that nothing happened- As I said I don't believe her- but she said we could still go to counselling and try and fix- I said that at the moment I didn't trust her- and she would need to show me her commitment otherwise I would file- she said she also needed to trust me again- and I said that would be the whole point of counselling- if at the end of the process I don't trust her- or vice verca- we would Divorce- but a pretty basic thing for me is that if she is still "friends" with him I don't see any future for us- as it will not be truly over.

I have continued to spend time with the children and her by proxy, but I get the feeling she is having her cake and eating it- spending time with me and the kids- until I go home back to my lonely room at my mums- and then she is free to continue to message his etc. and who knows what she gets up to during the day- as she is a SAHM.

Any suggestions on what to do next? I can forgive, forgetting would be hard, trusting feels like it would be nigh on impossible!

[MoveFrwd]

I have continued to spend time with the children and her by proxy, but I get the feeling she is having her cake and eating it- spending time with me and the kids- until I go home back to my lonely room at my mums- and then she is free to continue to message his etc. and who knows what she gets up to during the day- as she is a SAHM.

So why are you still spending time with her if you dont feel like she is being trustworthy. She asked what your conditions are....is she meeting them? If not, why are you bending over to accommodate her? There are plenty of things you could do with your kids that dont involve her.

[mbe76]

Because in spite of everything- the children still don't fully understand the sitch- they are 7, 5 and 2 and whilst we are being really civil with each other- no longer arguing etc. My thinking was that it would be the least damaging to the children until such a time that the decision has been made or the end to the saga is in sight.