Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV

[44tries]

I'm sorry if I let my frustration hurt your feelings. That was not my intent, and I am not being helpful if I hurt you. This is the remark I referred to as pitiful. Quote: "I told her I thought it was rude to not acknowledge me or simply say goodnight.". This was your W's way of showing you a little more disrespect and getting her control in the relationship. Perhaps you thought you were calling her out on rude behavior, but by your description, it just sounded kind of weak and petty. However, I wasn't there to see it or hear your tone of voice.

No worries, Sandi, I always appreciate your feedback no matter what it is. I understand what you meant and it's probably why I knew better at the time and should have listened to myself. I just got frustrated with her getting to decide if she wants to be nice or pretend I don't exist and the old way was to just not say anything, so I did the opposite. But it isn't something that is enforceable so I can see why it was just a weak statement. I can't make her acknowledge me, say goodnight, etc.

Well, she has been obvious about how she views you doing anything that doesn't revolve around her. She wants you to accommodate your activities according to what she wants. Honestly, I think she intends for you to feel guilty when you aren't being productive or attending to her. You are entitled to do things you enjoy.

I agree. I think that's why I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, because if she truly views me as a worm, anything I do that isn't productive or for her will only make that worse in her mind. I understand that's not my problem, but I don't think it helps my situation at all.

You know how you said it will take time on your NGS? Same thing applies to her sense of entitlement. This has been the dynamic in the relationship, and she will continue to test you until you get enough of it. I think you are way too nice about it. Just giving her the look is not enough if you're going ahead and getting whatever she wants. Even if she adds a "please" on it, I think the only way to really break her from trying to "use" you to wait on her is to get rather short and have a "fed up" attitude about it. Not very nice, you say? Exactly my point! When a woman has stomped on a man with NGS for a long time, he often has to act not-so-nice before she treats him better. If you don't believe me, ask another WW.

There will be times you will get tired and just want to go back to how things have been in the past. It will never get better, if you give in to that old dynamic. She is trying hard to get to that level of control again.

This makes total sense. I won't let up on the pushback and I won't let the old dynamic wrangle it's way back in. It helps to know that I can act "not so nice" and this will help, not make things worse. That right there might be one of the hardest things for guys with NGS to grasp and even harder to really believe. But I have done enough now to know that when I act in a way that I never would have dreamed of before, the response is positive. She might get mad, but I can see the dynamics shift and in fact things improve.

So far, she has not shown remorse or humility since returning home. She is going to test what you said to her that day she came home, to see if you really stick to it. I think she will push the boundaries as much as she can and get by with it. So, don't expect to see any quick changes in how she interacts with you. You will have to hold her feet to the fire until she makes a change. It may feel as though it's been a long time, but it has been very short. It didn't have to be this way, but she was too stubborn and selfish to be willing to submit and behave like a loving, respectful W.

((hugs))

I know Like you said, the work for both of us can't happen overnight. It's unfortunate that she wasn't fully where she needed to be when she returned home and I will admit it sort of feels like we went two steps forward, one step back. BUT, that's still a gain of one step forward and I will march on. Things have been okay, but she is still clear about wanting to split..eventually anyway (we have not had any R talks, but she makes the typical comments like having to buy more furniture in the future to fill two households etc).

She also seems to be really struggling personally. I overheard her on the phone telling her sister it was almost impossible to even get out of bed in the morning. She has voiced to me in the past couple weeks that she is in a really bad place. She opened up about a lot of stuff from her past, but said there is something bothering her that she won't talk about with anyone. She tried once a few years ago with her mom and was dismissed. I really can only guess as to what it is, but it's something traumatic from childhood. Anyway, she says that if she can get back on track with her schooling and some other major changes it will "fix everything" (I don't think she meant with us but those were her words).

I am torn with how much I should help her with these endeavors. She has always asked me to help but then it feels like she puts it all on me and blames me when she doesn't meet her goals. However, I also think that it's important to motivate each other and push each other be the best people we can be (in a healthy MR anyway, perhaps now it isn't appropriate). She has some big dreams and finally feels like maybe they are possible (and also still thinks maybe I will be included even if we aren't together, which really boggles my mind).

As for myself, I have a very busy week ahead and am continuing to make my own dreams become reality. We leave for our trip on Friday and I have a lot to do before then. When we get back, I am going on a weekend surf trip with some new friends I met through my GAL Meetups (W is not happy and started with the questions again, which I shut down).