[HelenaJ]

Hey Zues, I didn't know if you'd respond back or not since it doesn't sound like you post too much. I'm glad you did though because I'd really like your continued input. Coincidentally, I spent last night reading through your last thread. Sounds like you've gotten on with your life quite well although you clearly miss being married. That would be me too.

Well, looks like our beliefs don't line up. It happens.

I don't think that's entirely true because...

You can find other partners, project a lot onto them in the first 2-3 years before reality overpowers fantasy, and pretend you have the love and relationship you've always wanted. It's a pretty hard self hypnosis act because you're dealing with courts and custody and missing your children when they're not around and being negative cash flow and working all the time and exhausted from trying to manage everything on your own, as well as from the loss of knowing that no fantasy will be your husband as you desired him, no other person will be the father of your children, or have grown with you and suffered with you through these years of your life. But it can be done. And certainly you can go on to live a good life. But there will always be a hole in your heart. I'd consider subsequent relationships after a D to be like having more children after your firstborn dies. Of course you keep living, but it will never be 'ok' again.

Because these could be my words, I swear I've said very nearly the exact same thing. I have no doubts that if H and I divorced I would be "fine", that's just who I am. But I would forever miss being married to my children's father and having my family intact. I don't fool myself by thinking there is anything that could replace it. I might be happy someday (and happiness is NOT my driving factor by the way), but it would never be the same as having that same moment with the father of my children. Things would never ever be the same and I would always have a hole in my heart because of it. And whereas some people might thing the analogy of the death of a child is over the top, I don't. I've thought that myself. People think I'm being dramatic and ASSURE me that I'll find happiness again. But I know me. And I know better.

However. My H has checked out of our marriage-he left it, not I. Do you understand that? I didn't know emotional abandonment was a real thing until I knew it was a thing. It's a thing.

It's true that if she had acted differently I would've responded differently so it was easy to fool myself into thinking she was responsible for how I was acting.

And this is a potential flaw with 180s. On the one hand, changing your behavior can absolutely change the behavior of the other person, but it they don't respond well to it then it can actually make the problem worse and once you've done the 180, it can be hard to dial back from.

My H is flawed and I have reacted to those flaws in flawed ways of my own. I could see dropping expectations and one could say that's what he has done. He no longer expects me to be his wife because he's convinced himself that I want something other than him. He's told me to do whatever I want (opposite of controlling right? And a total BS cover up IMHO). Can I drop the expectation of having a husband/wife relationship with my H whom I believe with all of my heart is intentionally withholding it as a punishment? I just don't think I'm that big of a person Zues. However, even if I did separate, I would not file for D. I would simply put a request in the family law court to get custody approved because there is no way H is going to agree to anything. Nothing. So for me, even a separation would be a hope to actually save my M. It would be a last chance wake up call. And if he let me walk away, then I would know at that point that there was nothing I could have done and I just need to keep my eyes on the road ahead.

My view is people don't marry so they can divorce either. And that marriage makes a spouse family and divorce is no different than putting a child in foster care because they were throwing tantrums.

A child is different though-as an adult you have a responsibility to show them how to deal with the world. They are learning, they are innocent and fragile. My H is not a child and he has to take responsibility for his own journey. We have children of our own to teach. If he wants me, I am here. But if he continually says he can't give me his heart again, it's different than a foster child saying he doesn't want me. With a child, it's up to me to show unconditional love because that's my job as a parent. It's not my job as a wife to continue to put up with hurtful behavior because my H wants to punish me as though I AM THE CHILD.

The tragedy of life is you'll never have the marriage your heart desires.

You must be speaking in general because lord knows I'm not asking for a lot here. Just asking for my H to participate with me in the M he also chose. I'm not asking for him to change. For him to drink less. For him to stop watching porn. For him to go to counseling.
For him to do anything except stop shirking the vows he also took. Is expecting a marriage period equivalent to expecting the marriage my heart desires? No, it isn't. And in fact it sounds like him telling me I can't have my "fairy tale marriage".

I *obviously* haven't been a perfect wife or I would not have made the mistakes I did. But they were mistakes. In fact the company party thing wasn't even a mistake, it was a complete accident. I absolutely had no idea I was doing anything wrong or that so much time had passed. On a daily basis, I AM a good wife. I don't nag at my H for stuff, I am fit, I keep my hair and nails done, I dress well, I am laid back and go with the flow, I love his family and they love me and are our best and only friends and are over all the time, I'm a good cook, I keep our house clean, I'm a great Mom, I make really great money that allows us to have the life we live, and although I'm not an initiator of sex too often I made a vow quite some time ago not to turn it down and I am open to anything in the bedroom (aside from a third party), and honestly most of all, I accept HIS faults. He has some pretty big ones in my honest opinion.

I'm not sure if you've ready my specific circumstances, but if you haven't, would you? I would really appreciate your sincere assessment of it and your opinion on what I should do next. Thank you!!