Moving past the WAW-MCL to a stronger me

[Vanilla]

V,

Your comments while greatly appreciated have thrown me into a morass of questioning everything. Up until now I was feeling confident in my path, the actions that I was taking, but now I do not know. I have read so many threads on here, and you are right that the madness and craziness and anger elsewhere I do not see in my situation.

Yes. It does but it helps refine your view.

Part of the reason that I thought MLC was because my W told me at one point post-BD that she "was not herself". She also told me that this was not about me, but about her.

Yes I believe her. Note if she were wayward I wouldn't believe a single word at all. She has been deeply depressed, her M is breaking up and it is about her. If she isn't depressed then clearly she isn't herself, she is a better one. My view would be very different if she was wayward.

She took on all the guilt for the breakup and never tried to put any on me. (I definitely took on my own share for sure!)

Yep.

But what you are telling me seems to a) shift more (not all) of the blame onto my shoulders

stop the blame for either of you. Depression is illness and you can't blame either of you for that. Detached loving compassion for you both. Drop the blame game.

and b) upsets my thoughts that this was a temporary phase that she would eventually snap out of. By considering this temporary madness,

This is WAW beginning to sort herself outo, take her [censored] back and grow up. Has she had IC because that may be a powerful cause, but you can want this. Suppose it wasnt crazy but exactly what should be happening. Suppose this was a good route forward for you both? Leading to two healthier peeps? Suppose you say so. This is called reframing, which is so powerful as a technique.

Not sure on a scale of 1 to 10 in the crazy loco stakes this behaviour of WAW merits a high score, perhaps a 3, 4 max. My own sitch was an 11 out of 10. And so is for example Orange. That's madness in action.

I could more readily believe the axiom not to believe anything she says and only 50% of what she does.

I don't think her actions count for a lot compared to most here she's logical. She has asked for what she needs, told you what she is doing, done it. You are aware of her plans. Just because you don't like them doesn't make her wayward or mad.

However, if it isn't that, then the most likely explanation to me seem like she really is just done with R. All of her actions indicate that. I have backed off pursuit entirely and there has been no change in her behavior or attitude towards me.

Yes she has done with the old R. But so I hope are you! At this stage you are looking for a new R with a super improved you. Showing her that a new improved R is possible not trying to guilt or manipulate her back. I split with some one I lived with after my H1 died, we had been together for 7 years. He tried to guilt me back, went NC and then raged. There was no going back after that.

Don't be a walk over either. It's a fine line to walk.

It makes me wonder if I should have handled the anguished email she sent me a few weeks ago in a different manner. Not responding to that for 5 days and then simply validating and moving on was brutally hard for me.

I am not going to evaluate past actions, serves no purpose. But it did say you were done too. She believed your action here. I would have too. That's why she looks after numero uno as she believes you are doing the same. That's what peeps do in D.

If it was really a temperature check, what does it mean that my lack of response did not elicit any reaction.

She isn't wayward it wasn't a temperature check. She was telling you how she felt not asking how you were. It didn't require a reaction from her.

Also, just for more context currently my W is living at home surrounded by all the memories of our life together, all of our pictures together, our dog, her garden. But when I get back from the trip she will move out and into an apartment. She made it clear the last time we met that she would not be staying in the house when I came back although that had been an option. I was thinking that perhaps having to leave all of that behind might help her realize what she was throwing away. But I also wondered if being surrounded by all the memories of us and the R was holding her back and continuing to oppress her. Now I do not know.

There is no answer to this. But if she feels guilty for being a walkaway then it's possible she will leave to give you space. It's a good sign as it says to me she can then have more control over returning.

Just my thoughts

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Fat lady hasn't sung yet. You can be honest if you don't want D and let her set the pace on filing. I assume you have L advice on it?

V

[Davide]

V,

Ok. So if I am reading your message correctly, I should just continue with my version of NC. You seemed to imply otherwise in the earlier comments. That it was too harsh. (It feels harsh to me). I respond very friendly to her texts, but that is about it. She is not on facebook (closed her account 2 years ago) and as far as I know is not keeping tabs on me at all. Given the physical separation and my impending trip I think our contact will be non-existent. I have seen no sign of pursuit on her end despite cutting it off completely on my end. I know that lighthouses do not chase, but I wonder how she will know the light is still on.

She definitely wants to remain friends, but I do not want to get caught in the friend zone. That seems counterproductive to me, or if she were wayward - an example of cake eating. But, again, I do not trust my instincts.

If she were to express doubts about her decision again, should I handle it differently? She asked if either of us was growing from this situation, and I was dying to tell her that I am growing a ton, but I bit my tongue thinking that was something she needed to see and believe over time, rather than hear from me.

[Davide]

Maika,

Thanks for that thread, I am working my way through it.

[Jlh]

You're amazing! I've been GALing it up and then nights are the hardest when I think about things too hard. I reread some chapters of DB and DR that helps me relax a bit from overthinking too much.

I feel your pain on the heart emojis and love texts one minute and then the big bomb drop. I know my H had (maybe still has) an EA and it's hard, I wish I could see what he was thinking as well.

I would say just donate to the cause but skip on going to the charity party.

[Davide]

Thanks. I feel like I am doing everything right or at least the best I can. But that does not make it easier. I am still struggling to detach emotionally. I can put on a brave face and act cool calm and collected but I know where my heart is.

[Vanilla]

V,

Ok. So if I am reading your message correctly, I should just continue with my version of NC. You seemed to imply otherwise in the earlier comments. That it was too harsh. (It feels harsh to me). I respond very friendly to her texts, but that is about it. She is not on facebook (closed her account 2 years ago) and as far as I know is not keeping tabs on me at all. Given the physical separation and my impending trip I think our contact will be non-existent. I have seen no sign of pursuit on her end despite cutting it off completely on my end. I know that lighthouses do not chase, but I wonder how she will know the light is still on.

She definitely wants to remain friends, but I do not want to get caught in the friend zone. That seems counterproductive to me, or if she were wayward - an example of cake eating. But, again, I do not trust my instincts.

If she were to express doubts about her decision again, should I handle it differently? She asked if either of us was growing from this situation, and I was dying to tell her that I am growing a ton, but I bit my tongue thinking that was something she needed to see and believe over time, rather than hear from me.

Still, please put your trip on FB. The great and wonderful bits, the scenes, the restaurants. Not the feelings or any delicious women you meet though! I think you have to just trust me on this, WAW will see it! Go large.......

Marketing, you are going to be doing something amazing. Posters will tell you this and how amazing you are doing, how great you look etc. Because peeps are like that. I don't think this in most sitches where the opposite is true. Cards close chest but in yours please consider it.

V

[Vanilla]

I see absolutely no harm in telling her about the major things you have learned on your journey if she asks. Not R talk but the things which are about you. Factual.

For instance:
WAW I have found the spirit of adventure and I am trying lots of new things which have really brightened my mood. You know I have learned to validate and that has really helped me deal with some tough stuff at work, I am really pleased about that.

And yes modified or reduced contact isn't no contact. No contact is complete deathly silence with blocking on all counts. No calls, emails or texts. So I do not recommend NC I your sitch, but that's not what you are doing. So if I were you then I would recommend using a term other than NC. As it has that specific meaning.

In your case I might have soft modified contact. Try smiling on the phone and lowering the timbre and speed of your voice. It is called pacing and it will help you calm your anxiety and WAWS. Again only for your type of sitch, not for a wayward where it will anger them.

Again being friendly does not mean being friends! There is a difference, if you think of a circle of all the people you know with you in the middle, WAW is no longer inner circle, mum dad sis, bestie, wingman 1. No longer second teir, favourite cousin, partner at work, gym companion and coach. She falls in their 3, kindly next door neighbour, friendly regular hairdresser, walking bud. People you like, are kind to, would give a lift in the rain or put out their rubbish if they broke their leg. Maybe you wouldn't feed their cat for 6 weeks but you step in to help if they break their leg. You are kind and friendly but not overly so, unless they ask and show concern for you. That's day to day.

If WAW approaches, you don't chase or run away (pursuit dynamic), you stand and answer in a friendly open positive way and then close it down. You have nothing to hide in this. WAW isn't going to use this in a contentious D as far as I can see.

Let us evaluate: What would I want to see before I even think about being friendly if I were WAW:

That Davide:

1. Isn't judging me or trying to control
2. Is toleranthere to who I want to be and how I choose
3. Will let me have my life and has reasonable boundaries
4. Isn't part of repeating the old life that triggered depression in me and anxiety in him
5. Has his ducks in a row, resolved his stuff, has his life

What do you think?

V

[Davide]

V,

You are the best!

Our limited contact has been super friendly in any case. Last week we exchanged text messages and she asked about a colonoscopy I was schedule to have (She actually asked if she could ask about it). I lied and said all good. (The truth was that I cancelled the appointment bc I had no one to wait 3.5 hours in the waiting room for me, but I did not want to lay that guilt trip on her. She is happy to ask about my life, but does not volunteer anything about her own. That is fine, and I never press.

The one thing is that we both seem to be actively avoiding the other. If she knows I am coming by the house for the dog or to pick up the car, she either leaves or just stays in her room. I think she is doing that mainly for my feelings, as she said earlier that she had no problem with that kind of casual contact.

I will definitely be posting pics of my trip on facebook. I might start an instagram account as well since it is more photo oriented. I know my W would love the trip out through national parks and the like, but I do not want to throw it in her face.

In an email shortly after BD she thanked me for "listening to her" since that is exactly what I did. I never stopped listening or tuned her out, I simply could not control my neediness/codependency before. I am definitely working on that part.

I assume that you agree that I should not go to the fundraising party this weekend?

When you say She believed your action here. I would have too. That is why she looks after numero uno as she believes you are doing the same. That is what peeps do in D.

Isnt that what I am supposed to be doing? Showing that I am detached and getting over the R? I ask not to beat myself up about the past but rather to know how to handle such questions in the future. If she asks if I am getting stronger or learning anything, should I give her an honest factual answer?


Ultimately I think you are right about the final points about what she needs to see. I am already a different man than the one she left, and I know that I still have lots more room to grow. I just worry about not having the opportunity to show that. It is probably just a lack of patience from a newbie. I get that.


thanks again. Your perspective and honesty is greatly appreciated.

[Ste7e]

Ha Davide I am also going on an extended road trip
My W also asks about me but gives nothing about herself
Seems to be very identical circumstances
Has she talked about actually filing for D yet I cant remember

[ovrrnbw]

Davide, I don't know if you should be actively avoiding her. If you're the strong, attractive guy you know you are, there is no reason to avoid her. You're just living your life. Let her see that you are capable of that. Let her see that you can be a happy person.

For the party, could you just show up, say hello to a couple friends and bounce out of there to your GAL? Ignore WW.