OK, I feel like you are tired of my advice. So I will back off for a while. Know that I pray for you and your S everyday.
Incorrect assumption. Just because i dont agree with every piece of advice you give doesnt mean i dont value it Steve. Im not mentally 12 like my darling wife.
And just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it isn't true or what you need to hear.
Peace brother.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So her hesitation to answer made you think there was hope?
Seems that way.
Originally Posted By: Steve85
It is the first time you were in the same room together, and could hear each other voices, in months. You don't think that had anything to do with her hesitation?
I have no idea honestly. I cant predict or guess her behavior at all anymore.
Originally Posted By: Steve85
She Could have been she expected you to jump in and say yes
This is pretty much what i did.
My actual reply to judge was "My intention when putting the hold order on was to wait until the other matter (criminal case) had been resolved so the RO would be gone and her and I could handle this amicably through mediation or reconciliation, then i was made aware that WW specifically requested the TRO to be extended, so we havent had a chance to talk" JUDGE: "So then theres no plan of reconciliation?" WW: *went to say something and paused* Me: "Well as ive said your honor, i haven been unable to speak to Mrs. WW so there hasnt been any chance of that happening, so No. JUDGE: *Glances at WW* WW: "......No"
Originally Posted By: Steve85
not because she wanted it but because she expected you to want it. Or maybe she was ready for the question so she wanted to see if you would jump in an answer before she did? Or maybe she hesitated on all of the questions posed to her by the judge (IDK, I wasn't there).
She barely said much else. Just Yes No and whatnot. Id say her actions with extending the TRO speak loudest, but i also feel like shes still running and hiding from the reality of the situation.
Originally Posted By: Steve85
Who knows, but I would try to view it objectively. What have all of her actions been in all the time that the TRO has been in place? Actions mean more than words. Actions mean more than lack of words. Does her hesitation at the judge's question trump all of her actions?
Exactly, See above. Her actions have been, extending the TRO, not talking to me, being very short and curt when she does. She treats me like i am some awful abusive jerk, when i didnt do anything like that at all. ever.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
And just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it isn't true or what you need to hear.
Peace brother.
Are you sure you aren't just getting frustrated that i don't agree with 100% of your advice? I value your input greatly Steve, but we are very different men also, so obviously not every thought and philosophy we have is going to match up perfectly. I know the difference between a debate and an argument, between disagreement and dissension.
If you aren't comfortable continuing the conversation that's your prerogative, but i never said I didn't want your input.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
I actually don't mind people disagreeing with my advice, but you were disagreeing with just about everyone today that was responding to you. It was like OK wanted to wallow in a woe is me moment and didn't want to hear anything that was intended to help him out of it.
My advice is my perspective, based on what people have revealed. I have no expectation that it is ever right for a given sitch. But you just seemed so quick to get defensive with Joe. I've dealt with people long enough to know when they've closed off to anything other than enabling and hearing what they want to hear.
I think when you look back at your threads in 6-12 months you'll have a different perspective. You'll see where your wild swings in emotions are alarming for those of us that don't know you above a screen name and a few thousands typed words on a forum.
And look at your input on other people's threads! You've given some great input when you have, but then readily admitted that you aren't great taking advice, even the advice you've dished out! Just food for thought.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Right? Not a word. WTF is that? Do they expect us to have read their mind and know that now that they have gotten all the things they have been shooting for for years, they all the sudden decide they want a totally different life
Based on the information you've provided, your W went into a relationship with you under false pretenses. She had an ulterior motive. I don't see her actions as the "usual" WW in M scenario. In her case, reading her mind would have been the last thing she wanted you to do, b/c she was hiding the truth.
Quote:
How did you get there? this is my final struggle, if i can get over the need for answers, explinations and apologies i feel like ill be able to truly move on
Shortly after I had joined the board, I was reading a post from a LBH who was upset that his WW had not apologized to him. I'm embarrassed to say that I wrote a scorching response. He was little prepared to handle it. I still had the heart of a WW, although I had ended my A and decided to stay in my M. What I told him in that post was the hard, cold truth......straight from the heart of a WW. But you know what? It wasn't what he wanted to hear. So, I think he pretty much rejected what I told him.
You will never get your answers, Orange. Even when someone tries to respond with something they've learned or experienced.....it only leads to more questions in your head. I'm not finding fault, b/c I see it as a normal reaction. But you have got to resign yourself to accept the outcome and stop this constant struggle of trying to figure out your crazy W. You can't do it, and neither can anyone else that is not a professional shrink. Even then, more information would be needed from her.
You are not going to get answers/explanations from her. Not one that is satisfactory. I don't think you'll get an apology, but if you do.......I think it will take YEARS before you hear it. So, give it up! Even if she apologized today, you would not let it go. You would want more answers from her. It's not going to happen. Accept it and move on.
Every LBH I have seen rise above his pain and confusion, has credited a great deal of it to GAL. I know you have a lot of cubicle time at work that seems to be the toughest. You have to purposely direct your thoughts on other things, and stop giving this cr@p your attention. The more you feed this wolf, the bigger he's going to get.
Quote:
I just cant wait for the day the GAL and 180's im doing and will have done fall into realization for her. it will be a good day.
What makes you think you would ever know about it.........if she does realize? You talk as if she's going to call you and express her feelings of realization. If it does hit her.....you won't know about it.
Why is vindication such a great need for you? If you know you did your best, and if you know you are not the bad guy here.....then why does it bother you what she tells her friends or that she doesn't give you an apology? That's on her.....not you. In case you've wondered, that is how the real bad guy acts! They lie, put down the good guy, refuse to own up anything, refuse to do the right or honorable actions, refuse to make things right, etc. You talk as if you are expecting this crazy woman to do the honorable thing.......when her track record shows that is not her MO. Why are you looking for her to act like a good guy when, clearly, she isn't? That is not rational to me.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi basically nailed it in her response about wanting answers, but I will give you my perspective to add to that.
There was a direct correlation between me wanting answers from her and me feeling like I was worthless and didn't have any value as a person, and also feeling abandoned. I wanted the answers to find out why EXACTLY I was worthless to her so that I could wallow in my self-victimization.
Mentally, I know how torturous this desire to want answers is. It is all consuming. It's not something you can just push out of your mind, because these thoughts are deeply connected to your emotions and your perceptions of yourself. I couldn't just stop drowning in it.
The only way I was able to get away from wanting answers and being mentally stable was to GAL and improve my self-worth. I needed to understand and convince myself why I was worthy of love, attention, companionship, and partnership.
This switch happened when I took accountability for my happiness and that W didn't get to decide my worthiness as a person. And the more my self-worth grew, the more I realized what I bring as a person which directly eroded any power that I had given to W about her actions controlling my self-worth.
So, the remedy here is the NC/going dark and GAL, and doing it consistently over time. Also, finding the inner validation from yourself.
Over time, I stopped caring about the answers because I took ownership over areas of life that I f$%*^ed up, but also recognized how she massively f$%^ed up too.
The need for getting answers lost all its power because I had grown and understood myself better.
Part of me still wants answers, but I am not holding onto dear life to get them. I know the answers may not be honest, and definitely won't be satisfactory. How do you explain blowing up the lives of three people without even trying to fix it? To me, there is no reasonable answer for that.
In your case, as Sandi points out, your W is a special kind of WW and there is a lot for you to process and deal with. The answers are not going to help you find closure - you think they will, but they will probably infuriate you and hurt your healing process.
So, move forward knowing that your desire for answers won't disappear through sheer brute mental force, but through your own deliberate and proactive healing journey.
Ok, I've been told to "Just get over it and not think about it" one too many times.
I'm done.
Deuces.
That is not what you are being told to do at all. We aren't telling you to get over it. We are telling you where you should concentrate on not wasting your energy looking for something you are never going to find. Apologies, explanations, none of that is going to happen. Or in a way that will be satisfying to you.
We have all been there. Our advice comes from your position once upon a time.
You want to peace out, feel free. But I think you respond so quickly and don't really stop to understand the context and reasons of what we are posting to you.
You can be mad at her. You can still be upset by all of this.
In time you will learn the 180's and GAL are for you, not her.
And you won't care if she notices are not. because who seriously goes out to make their own life the best it can be for someone else to notice? I make my life the best for me because I want to enjoy this life independent of others!
You'll get there when you are ready, but you are definitely in that toes dug in the sand place where you aren't hearing the true meaning behind out advice.
One other thing OK. From what you've told us your WW is a piece of human garbage. She has shown no remorse, she asked to have a junk RO extended, she shacks up with OM and exposes your S3 to him willy-nilly. There is nothing redeeming here except, as sandi so eloquently pointed out, an illusion in your head of someone that didn't even ever really exist.
So why spend one more minute wondering, worrying, contemplating, considering, and concentrating on what she thinks or feels?
Again, not trying to tell you to get over it because guess what, you may never really get over it. What I am telling you is that even if you could get the answers you are looking for, as Ginger said it will only lead to more questions. Is she really worth all of that time, energy, and effort? I vote no.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
