Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV

[44tries]

44, I'm a bit blurry on some of the nuances of the level of your WW's infidelity. Was it emotional, physical, ongoing, one time? Remind me.

She had some very young co-workers that were here temporarily and we/she started going out with them occasionally (very limited social pool at this location). Right before they left, she took an overnight trip (they had stopped over in another city in the same country) to go out with them one more time. She claims she got drunk and kissed one of them. Next day was BD. They then texted constantly for about a month after he left. She claims she broke it off at the beginning of May. I have no way of 100% verifying these claims, but they match what I had suspected from my own "investigation". Many people here have told me to be highly skeptical of the "just kissing" part--which I am--however a couple messages I saw between them mentioned this encounter and did not imply it had gone farther. She has not cheated before (to my knowledge, but I'm pretty confident).

And when she returned, it sounded like she understood that transparency would be needed if she were to recommit to the M, but she wasn't ready to do that, correct?

She wasn't ready to recommit to the M. I don't think the transparency has anything to do with the problem. She understood that it would be needed and agreed.

If I'm correct that she betrayed your trust with another man and has since apologized but not recommitted to the M or agreed to any type of transparency then you need to be very careful. If you read my first post about returning WWs then you should have also read my post about the horror of 'maybe'.

Is it part of the same thread? I will go back and make sure I've read it.

If you are to remain in limbo then you can't assume that you're working towards a point when WW can recommit to the M. I mean of course that's what you want and you can do your part to allow that to be possible. But it's not in your control. And that may not be how it plays out. WW could be in a continued affair. She might want things calm and consequence free at home while lining up other dates to explore greener grass. Who knows? But it would be very foolish to assume that since she 'said' she was 'sorry' that she feels a deep enough remorse to resist other men, particularly when she's already made it clear that you two aren't in a committed relationship together.

So what I'm asking is if you knew she was lying to you and cheating on you what would you be comfortable with?

Would you allow her to shower with you? Go to the gym with you? Cuddle with you?

I'm not telling you that you shouldn't do these things. But if the answer is 'heck no, I wouldn't be this close to someone that is texting nude pics to someone else' then I think you're exposing yourself emotionally to someone that has hurt you once and hasn't given much reason to think it won't happen again.

I really think the best answer is to remain detached, GAL like crazy, be the H only a fool would leave, and to maintain the boundaries you would if you knew she was cheating. If she likes you and doesn't like those boundaries then she has some decisions to make. But to think that if you don't have any boundaries that maybe someday she'll respect them seems super backwards to me.

Myself, I wouldn't remain with someone that had cheated and not recommitted. I would distance myself and then explain to her that as much as I wanted the M to work she had opted out of the M and that 'not sure' was as far from a commitment as 'I want a divorce', and that I deserved a committed partner that was willing to fight for the M and to regain my trust. Since she can't provide that I am going to be taking steps towards physical separation and will be filing for divorce. This wouldn't be a bluff, I wouldn't be willing to live with that. If she changes her tune I'd listen to what she had to say, but if she blames me for ruining any chances I'd keep walking all the way to the court because that is f'd up.

But that's just me NOW. Right after BD I wouldn't have had the spine to do that. Either way though, if you intend to continue to live in limbo with an uncommitted WW I think you need to open your eyes to the reality of where you're at which is *NOT* the illusion she is giving you to keep you sated.

Artista, Sandi, what are your thoughts? I think in house separation is super tough because it's so easy for the LBS to forego any boundaries because it seems like 'progress', but that this just allows WW to avoid any consequence or necessity for any change. I know it's tempting to think that maybe you can just make her fall in love with you again by being so awesome, but has that ever really worked?

You make some GREAT points and I completely agree. I should probably be hedging more for the fact that she might still be cheating or will again in the future. Again, I don't think this is the case, but I'm also not naive. The limbo is indeed torturous, in large part because I agree with your point that I cannot assume we are working toward recommitment. I get torn between what you said about considering "not sure" as the same as "I want a D", and being patient with the holding pattern, as MWD calls it in DR.

Your last paragraph on in-house separation is gold. If she is dictating the terms and suffering no consequence, why would she need to recommit? The weird thing is that she agrees we cannot be separated or "just friends" while under the same roof. She just doesn't seem able to make a choice. She doesn't believe we can get out of the old rut if we tried again. She says she has spent too long not knowing if she wants the relationship. She goes into her specific frustrations and then claims it would be me "trying too hard" if we were to attempt to fix them. But then she says she "needs me" and can't let me go. She is stuck in limbo herself.

Frankly, I think it's a mix of immaturity and idealism. And you're right, I'm not sure how me sticking around "being awesome" is going to fix those problems. It's tempting because she is still in that place where she wants to talk about specifics and that makes me feel like she does have some hope deep down that they could improve (or why discuss them?). It's like she wants to try without saying so and giving me false hope. OR perhaps locking herself into a commitment, but I don't think she feels she is free to go explore greener pastures. We are not separated in that sense and both agree it isn't appropriate to be seeing other people, etc. Like I said, she is not saying "let's be friends". I can hardly wrap my head around what she is saying, because it is so emotion-based. It's extremely frustrating.