Affair, no feelings...is there hope? IV

[44tries]

While I wait to hear from you today, I will write some scenarios as I think of them.

Wow, Sandi, these scenarios are SO helpful! And so nuanced. How deliberate were you about what to say in each one? By that I mean, what if I ended up using stuff from more than one? Or is everything very specific? Also, you mention stating the boundaries at the end of each (except #5, although they were touched on within the dialogue)...so am I clear that the boundaries are to be stated before she makes a definitive commitment to go "all in"? I state them and if she is in agreement, then I confirm she is totally committed?

I find it interesting that scenario 5 seems to start out the most promising...and seemingly ends the least promising. To your question about the snooping, I managed to avoid that topic altogether so she does not know. I intend to keep it that way, I don't see any reason for divulging it as it was a 10 second glance and frankly, it was warranted. She never explicitly asked and I made it sound like I had seen enough during all the times she was blatantly texting him in front of me, while I drove, etc. I am going to read over the scenarios again as I prepare and if I have specific questions, I will ask. And I might try to come up with some other things I feel she may say and ask about responses. Thank you for taking the time to write all those out, I cannot emphasize how helpful they are.

O, one last question. Since I will be picking her up from the airport, I should avoid having any of this talk in the car, right? I don't know if she will launch into it, and the drive home is about 35 minutes. I'm sure I can make small talk about the trip and stuff if need be. For some reason, I have a bit of anxiety about the transition into the conversation in the case that she doesn't initiate (this would probably look something like scenario 2, with less overt questions from her). For all her controlling ways, she isn't really that dominant in personality, especially if she is uncomfortable, and I could see her just being nice and anxiously waiting for my move.

I mean, you don't just take her word that she is going to commit or be transparent, or change her behavior and show respect. Some guys are so keyed up about just getting her to stay with him that they give a big sigh of relief and go right back into the same situation again. You have to hold her feet to the fire until you are convinced she has truly changed and is seriously trying her hardest to show respectful treatment. Your goal is not to just get her to stay. She has to prove herself. And you have to prove that you will not accept cr@ppy behavior. Understand? Getting past the initial "talk" where you let her know where you stand, is just the first step. Btw, I wrote about this very subject in my second thread to LBH's with a WW.

I understand. Especially since I'm not overly worried that she is going to come back and demand a D or something, hopefully the relief if she agrees to work on the MR won't be too extreme. I get that the initial talk is just the first step and the real stuff comes when I prove I won't tolerate the past dynamics. I will read your second thread again (last time I read it, this topic wasn't my primary concern at the time ).

That's part of not letting her back too easily. I'm always telling the LBH to make his WW "work" to get him back. If she doesn't, she won't respect or appreciate him....b/c she didn't have to work for it and got it too easily. That's called "spoiled"! She may be so emotional, she'll agree to most anything, but I kind of doubt it. You cannot budge from your position on going forward with a new MR or ending it. I know you are scared, but you have to take this hard stand and make her believe you are ready to end it, rather than accepting her disrespectful and entitled behavior.

I am clear. I know the stand I have to make. I am a lot less scared now that I have already gained a lot of confidence pushing her and rocking the boat. And as I said above, I think I know her hand and she has given a lot of signs that me walking out the door is not something she wants (but I know that is very different than committing to go all in on the MR).

It/s b@lls, 44. Big ole b@lls of steel. Listen, we women love men with big b@lls. Draws us like flies to honey. Don't buy into her bluff.

Well, they feel good Sandi! I won't let them get away again. I know now so much of her control tactics are bluffs. I've been folding all this time while her hands are really nothing to be afraid of.

It's hard to relent the power when she's had it so long, but once she sees you can handle her, she'll like it. She may not like at first, in fact, I think you can count on it. She'll test you, but once you've proven yourself, she's going to fall in love with you.

This is very encouraging. I had sort of forgotten about that little fact and was prepping for a long, drawn out war. At first, you're right, it will be bloody. But hopefully it's not a long battle and if the end result is her falling back in love me, well you can imagine I will be quite pleased .

I am so relieved to hear you say so. I also sent a long, long post with about five detailed scenarios. I hope they will help you.

You don't need to hope, they are extremely helpful!

Okay, well if she takes off, so be it. It doesn't change your position.

I think I'm still confused about your original question about the trips I never implied she would take a trip to run away. All her talks about trips the past couple weeks have been her trying to plan a trip with me.

It's not the best way, if you can word it where it doesn't sound like one. Actually, you are giving an ultimatum, which is that she start behaving like a respectful W or you are out. But maybe it won't sound so much like an ultimatum when you say it, as when I say it.

Okay, this is good to know. That an ultimatum is in fact not ideal, but essentially what I need to say is one. I can try to be cognizant of it sounding like I'm trying to trap or control her (I think that would be the root of why an ultimatum is bad). Rather, I will make it clear that it's something I need to continue a relationship with her, and it's her choice whether she gives it to me.

Yeah, we aren't going to worry about making a his & her list of wants/needs until we've got this other part clearly established. She'll probably want her say, but if she's truly remorseful, I don't think she'll be blaming and accusing you, trying to make you feel bad about her feelings. That's is so disgusting. This is the time for her to shut up and listen to what you have to say. But whatever........I think you'll be able to tell to some degree if she's really remorseful. I don't know she'll be remorseful about the disrespect (apart from the A) until after she has to start actually implementing respectful behavior.

I agree. I'm not so hopeful to think that she won't have things to say about her hurt and frustrations with the MR...she is still self-focused. But I hope it won't be excessive, she can give me equal (or, frankly, greater) consideration, and the real line will be if she twists any of the blame on me for the A itself. Based on the confrontation conversation, I don't think she will, but you never know with a WW right? As far as the respect goes, frankly, I don't think she will totally "get" it right away, because even though she has admitted to treating me horribly I don't think she even realizes the full extent. I think you're right that it won't be until I start putting down some firmness and correcting her behavior that she will start to truly see and understand and feel real remorse for everything.