Advice on my Scenario Pt. 6 - Becoming a Warrior

[JujuB]

Nasty comments were

"I want to talk to you a little as humanly possible" and "OM was brought in to sons life too early"

They are critical responses and show you care. Trust me, being cold and to the point will bother her so much more. Your criticisms show her she has power to bother you. That you still care. Anger is better for her then indifference.

She is reading your responses to OM, rolling her eyes and he is feeling like a hero. Like he won some prize.

I agree with the others though. Let all this be hashed out in the decree. Put a list together of everything you feel will work nest for son in writing. Only communicate regarding essentials amd keep it to yes, no, please thank yous. No need to tell her you wamt whats best for son. That sounds manipulative. No need to say it. It puts you on the defensive.

Being a fire fighter will not mean anything to a family court judge. Fire fighters sometimes have reputations for being heavy drinkers and having a boys club mentality. Judges have seen it all.

Being prepared, having your documents in order, demonatrating that you are a responsibke dad will. That means no bad mouthing mom or OM. Especially not in writing. Your lawyer should help you with that.

[OrangeK]

No lawyer.

Pro Se. Cant afford a lawyer. She is Pro Se as well.

[OrangeK]

She is reading your responses to OM, rolling her eyes and he is feeling like a hero. Like he won some prize.

Good for them. He will get his reality check soon enough and I will be far above this whole cesspool by then. Shes been feeding him lies from Day 1, as is her MO.

[JujuB]

You have every right to be mad. She is pretty bad. You just have to be smart about it and keep your emotions from her.
You will never get validation from her. It [censored]. It really does. Getting conned [censored]. But there is a beautiful child out of it. So worth all of the pain, that you will not always feel. Right now just set it up so that you can habe the best possible relationship with your child. Thats the bigger goal right now.

((Hugs))

[Ginger1]

Oh she was certainly referring to the fact that i mentioned "when hes with you and OM"

Typical defensive response to the fact that i called her out on something she knows is wrong. I just dont get why she continues to deny, deny, deny when we are all well aware of the situation.

She has denied the fact that S3 slept in OM's bed, has spent time around him (like a crap load).
She was still pretending they were just friends in Jan, i imagine if i were to ask (im not going to) that she would still say the same.

My son tells me about going to OM's house (he lives with his parents) all the time, and about all the activities they take him to do, monster trucks, mountains, the things he bought S3.

I read this, and this was the type of exchange my ex and I would have had 10 years ago when he first BD'd and I found out there was OW.

You are being P/A about OM, wanting her to fess us and "admit" things. She wasn't denying her affair. She was simply denying that he takes part in the bedtime routine.

So why do you want her to tell you how involved she is with OM? Why are you trying to get it out of her so hard? You inserted it into the conversation when that wasn't what your convo was about.

I did what you are doing. My daughter was 6 months old. I get it.

If I go back and change anything, it would be giving OW so much of my energy. I should have proceeded like she was a non-entity. Like she was nothing. You can't change OM's involvement (trust me, I tried to change OW involvement) but they will do what they do.

Your best course of action is to stop being so passive aggressive in your interaction and stick to exactly what the topic of the conversation is without trying to throw stuff in there. because really, she doesn't give a poop about what you know about OM, she really is rolling her eyes, and the focus doesn't remain where it needs to be, and that is your S.

I give you advice from my mistakes.

[sandi2]

How long ago was this? how is he now? Is she still on the same patterns as far as you know?

About four years ago. He is okay. Has dated off and on. He is pretty settled for a young guy. We have no idea about her. Last I heard she was shacking up with some guy, and her parents had custody of her children. She and my nephew lived together before getting M, and she would praise him to the sky on Facebook, etc. The minute they M, she started showing her true colors. They had been M just a few months when my nephew went home one day and caught her with OM. She said she wanted out of the M, so he left and never contacted her again. Like you, he had fallen in love with the "act", and that woman would never return b/c she was never real.

Will she stay just bitter and antagonistic forever, and let me be the concrete role in her life as a source of negative attention and a scapegoat she can constantly blame me for things and play the victim for the next 15 years, or will she actually try to build an amicable co-parenting situation, try to be "friends", or even the re-flirting. Her mood and demeanor will play a big role in how easy or difficult co-parenting is in the long term.

Why on God's green earth would you want to be friends with a person who deceived you the way she has? That blows my mind into a thousand pieces. Understand the difference in polite civility......and a flirty friendship.. There is a difference in being friendly from being friends. I don't know if you could even trust her to be amicable, without her having an ulterior motive. I think most people are referring to being friendly when they have to see each other to swap kids or communicate. But they call it a friendship.........and that word messes with men's heads.......and women know it and use it to their advantage.

I get the whole bit about how her mood and demeanor could determine how difficult or easy co-parenting might go. But let me tell you something, these kind of women learn how to use their moods to control the men in their lives. Just like she works her sexuality to get what she wants, she uses her moods to control. I promise you! I bet you already know she could be a real humdinger if she felt like it, and I'd dare say that it's things like this that made it easier for her to go as far as she did with you. You didn't want to rock the boat. You still don't want to rock it, and are hoping she'll decide to be flirty and/or friendly. Well, what if she's M to another dude? It's just a matter of time. But you know what I think she'll do the minute she has another legal H, or you get a new woman? Become flirty and friendly with YOU! So the part about being bitter for 15 years.......no, I think it will change when she either get a new H or you start dating.

It makes her look bad, she cheated, and left me for another man, she has to go to court and explain that. She is very non confrontational if she can be and the idea of standing in front of a judge and trying to lie her way out of guilt is something i know would bother her a lot. She asked for D but never took a step to initiate it and has waited till the last min to do each step weve done so far.

Why does she have to admit to cheating in court? It won't affect the divorce or child custody, will it? The court of public opinion.......well, she's learned she just doesn't reveal her past to her new love interest, or she lies her way out of it. As you've said, she lies about most things anyway, and she doesn't have many friends.........so who is going to hear in it in court that would matter that much to her? I'm afraid you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment when you don't see her fall apart in court or whatever reaction you'd like to see.

This is a huge concern, How often do you see this possessiveness? Why do they feel territorial about something they decided was worthless and expendable? that flies in the face of anything resembling logic.
She DEFINITLY did this with her EX, and i know she was really offended he moved onto a new R so quickly, and got married and had a kid to boot. Things she wanted from him, i know she even said to EX's Wife at one point "You got the version of EX that I deserved" or something to that effect.

Did you just say logic?? WW's don't have logic!

How often do I see it? I see it in every WW story where the H starts dating (especially dating one main woman), and especially if the WW has not M her OM yet.....or if things are not going like she had fantasized. There is this one thing you must always remember about a WW, Orange. Selfishness runs through her veins. Selfishness motivates every decision she makes. You may not always be able to see or understand what she got from doing a certain action....and it may not seem logical to you......but I can garantee you that she had something to benefit.....emotionally, attention, ego, financially, just for kicks, ........it was something she wanted at the moment. She will probably feel extra territorial over you, when it comes to other women. Having a child will give her more leverage. When you and another lady decide to get M, she'll try to do her nasty number little number.....just like with EX's W. When you and new W are expectating a baby, she'll try to torment her with how she had your first child and he'll always be your favorite, and how new W will never be able to break the emotional bond between the two of you......yada, yada. In a case like that, you and new W would really have to work together to not let her come between you. I don't know why the EX BF didn't put a stop to it before his W finally stepped in and confronted her. You said she doesn't like confrontation, so I'd make sure I confronted really good the first time she pulled any of that cr@p......or get a restraining order on her! I think the biggest thing to watch is her pretending to want friendship with you.....to set you up for a breakup with new lady, or pretend friendship with new lady. Maybe I've watched too many Lifetime Movies, b/c the possibilities are too many to list.

It would be extremely foolish to let her get anywhere around either you or the new lady. You will NEVER be able to trust or believe her. So, be smart and never let her slither through a crack. No good can come from it. Not even better co-parenting. She may even try to use that as leverage. That's why it is best to never start being "friends" and especially never act as if you enjoy or respond to any flirtatiousness. Oh boy, would she ever use that against you.......no matter if it happened five years before you met new lady. The only reason I am talking so much about what she could do to your future relationships, is b/c you've got me worried that you'll try to keep her pacified, afraid to upset the apple cart and she'll give you a hard time co-parenting. With women like her, I think it is best to never even start. It's like being friends with a rattlesnake.

Remember how wonderfully confident you felt after making contact with her that first time? It showed me something. It showed me how you had built up that doubt or nervousness. At first, I though you were anxious to see how she would act toward you. But maybe you needed to prove something to yourself.......or maybe to her. You'll need to maintain that confidence when going forward, b/c if she ever senses you dread or fear what she might do........then you've had it!! Women like her are like dogs. If they sense your fear.....they will attack and rip you apart. She doesn't have power, she just has lies. She has a cute body she uses to her advantage, and uses moods to control. All women have, and use, at least 50% of what she has and uses. I'll let you figure out what part..

[mtb1981]

Here's my question. If i am such a worthless, awful POS, why bother even pushing my buttons?
If she wants nothing to do with me, why lie and make me angry?
What profit does she get from that?

Because it gives her a feeling of control. She's messed up and it makes her feel good knowing she can make you react...

[sandi2]

OMG.......just read about the conversation with WW. Why didn't you talk about it before contacting her? It was so obvious what was eating at you. Maybe we could have talked off you off the ledge.

Originally Posted By: mtb1981
OM should have never been mentioned. He's not important. This only involves you, W, and S. Pretend like he doesn't even exist...

The only reason i brought it up with the fact that he has been introduced to S3 WAYYY earlier than he should have been

.

It doesn't matter. There is nothing you can do about it. And she knows you can't do anything about it.......so it make the whole conversation look useless and makes you look weak.

The only thing ill say is i dont think she read into it as much as we all are, if i had to guess she already forgot about it. Could I be wrong, if so, why?

Really? Both of you were snarling and nipping around each other's ankles. So, yeah.... I completely agree with JujuB.

Yet another situation where she is trying to minimize the involvement of OM. She doesn't know this but ive seen his Instagram pages (havent looked at it in 2 weeks FYI) which includes a lot of very blatant evidence they are in a full blow R. So why continue trying to minimize the fact that its happening?


After this question im done trying to figure anything she does out. Its a lost cause, a waste of my time and painful and unproductive.

I'll have to see it before I believe it.

I've tried hard to answer as many of your questions as I could. Remember asking me why she called you by your first name, instead of the usual pet name? You just answered your own question, and you didn't even catch it. It made you feel as if she was scolding you!

Another LBH would be posting in his thread, "My WW just called me by pet name.......what does this mean? Does she really want to use the pet name, or was it an accident"?

All those questions you've wanted to know about why she does this or why she said that? Even when a logical response would serve her better.......she'll lie, deny, down play, minimize, or whatever pops into her looney-tune head. Nothing about her is logical. The sooner you can stop expecting her to give truthful, logical responses.......the sooner you will stop driving yourself crazy wondering why she gave such a illogical response. Actually, there are some LBH's questions that sound pretty illogical, but I'm not saying this happens to be one.

Honestly, Orange, I'm not fussing at you. I am actually trying to use a little humor and get you to look at some of the questions asked, and realize nobody would be able to give you the precise answer.....but WW herself. In some cases, even the WW couldn't tell you why she said or did something. At the time she "felt" it was the thing to do......and since she operates strictly on "feelings", then that's her go-to plan. Not logic.

[OrangeK]

You are being P/A about OM, wanting her to fess us and "admit" things. She wasn't denying her affair. She was simply denying that he takes part in the bedtime routine.

She has never acknowledged the A either. She denies whenever it has been brought up. I never expected her to admit things, which is why i made a statement, not asked a question.

So why do you want her to tell you how involved she is with OM? Why are you trying to get it out of her so hard? You inserted it into the conversation when that wasn't what your convo was about.

the fact that she has never admitted to anything is just one of the really hard things i have a difficult time with accepting i guess, so when i texted her without checking here first (mistake) i let my emotions dictate what i said, not logic. wont be doing that again.

Your best course of action is to stop being so passive aggressive in your interaction and stick to exactly what the topic of the conversation is without trying to throw stuff in there. because really, she doesn't give a poop about what you know about OM, she really is rolling her eyes, and the focus doesn't remain where it needs to be, and that is your S.

If she doesnt care what i know about OM, why has she made such an effort for the last 7 months not to post it publicly, or denied anytime in the past i had confronted her about him? she stuck to the "just friends" BS.

[OrangeK]

Why on God's green earth would you want to be friends with a person who deceived you the way she has? That blows my mind into a thousand pieces.

"or will she actually try to build an amicable co-parenting situation, try to be "friends", or even the re-flirting"

I dont want to be her friend thats for darn sure, not after all this. I was asking if she would try to eventually establish that as the norm.

I don't know if you could even trust her to be amicable, without her having an ulterior motive.

Agreed. I will always be frosty with any interactions with her, even a decade from now. As we say in the Fire Service, "Complacency Kills"

You still don't want to rock it, and are hoping she'll decide to be flirty and/or friendly.

Im not sure why you keep assuming I want these things, i dont. All i "WANT" from her is to hear her admit she was wrong, and thats never going to happen.
The only thing i mentioned recently about possibly "wanting" was the fact that i know i still think of her sexually, because at the end of the day, looking back, thats all she was good for. That and birthing S3. Shallow thing to say, but im saying about a shallow person. I wouldnt risk all the work ive done recently just to get some action, so even if was TEMPTED sexually by her, i wouldnt do it.

Well, what if she's M to another dude? It's just a matter of time. But you know what I think she'll do the minute she has another legal H, or you get a new woman? Become flirty and friendly with YOU! So the part about being bitter for 15 years.......no, I think it will change when she either get a new H or you start dating.

I absolutely agree with this, it fits her pattern to a tee.

I'm afraid you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment when you don't see her fall apart in court or whatever reaction you'd like to see.

Nope, no expectations. I imagine despite the fact it will make her VERY uneasy, she will keep her composure in court. I am determined to do the same. She wont get the satisfaction.

Did you just say logic?? WW's don't have logic!

I guess i just expect an adult and mother to posses SOME form of logic. Nope.

How often do I see it? I see it in every WW story where the H starts dating (especially dating one main woman), and especially if the WW has not M her OM yet.....or if things are not going like she had fantasized. There is this one thing you must always remember about a WW, Orange. Selfishness runs through her veins. Selfishness motivates every decision she makes. You may not always be able to see or understand what she got from doing a certain action....and it may not seem logical to you......but I can garantee you that she had something to benefit.....emotionally, attention, ego, financially, just for kicks, ........it was something she wanted at the moment. She will probably feel extra territorial over you, when it comes to other women. Having a child will give her more leverage. When you and another lady decide to get M, she'll try to do her nasty number little number.....just like with EX's W.

Yes i expect this as well, I plan on warning any future woman i date (once its appropriate to bring it up) that she will likely have to deal with WW at some point, and prep them for her tactics.

Remember how wonderfully confident you felt after making contact with her that first time? It showed me something. It showed me how you had built up that doubt or nervousness. At first, I though you were anxious to see how she would act toward you. But maybe you needed to prove something to yourself.......or maybe to her. You'll need to maintain that confidence when going forward, b/c if she ever senses you dread or fear what she might do........then you've had it!! Women like her are like dogs. If they sense your fear.....they will attack and rip you apart. She doesn't have power, she just has lies. She has a cute body she uses to her advantage, and uses moods to control. All women have, and use, at least 50% of what she has and uses. I'll let you figure out what part..

Hahaha. definitly figured that out, so on point. lol.
Indifference is the weapon of choice moving forward.