[s]No[/s] affair, no feelings...is there hope? III

[44tries]

The other thing to remember is that kissing is more intimate to women than intercourse. So "just kissing" isn't any better in these instances.

So true, Steve. That's partly why a part of me doesn't even really care. It could matter for health reasons...but emotionally, the knife is already there...

[Mowgli]

another thing:

When she starts to do the whole "I don't deserve sympathy" routine, that roughly translates to "please give me sympathy" in WW speak.

She does the whole self deprecating thing because she wants you to be the "Nice Guy,' and tell her it's all okay.

It's not okay. She needs to keep hearing that early on. Forgiveness and sympathy is for her, not for you. You will heal at your own pace which is different for everybody. You will forgive at you own pace, too, so when you say it, you need to be ready to mean it.

Secondly,

You need to play it out like you know WAAY more than you actually do about her tryst, so keep the questions to a minimal, and let her dig her own hole.

There's lot of other stuff, but I wanted you to be thinking about those two things before all the dust settles. You don't know how this will all play out, and it will be a LOONNG play-like years long- and there are lots of different roads you both will travel in that time.

Right now, you are confident and strong and are becoming your best version. Your focus is still on what is best for you.

All she needs to know is that you know you will be fine and will come out stronger and better on the other end (you will. We never fully feel that way, but we all do).

[sandi2]

Steve has made some good points to remember when your W returns.

But interestingly, she told me not to show her any compassion. She said she wouldn't blame me if I didn't care about her and she didn't want any sympathy, she didn't deserve it. I'm not sure if that's normal or she was manipulating or what

It is manipulative. I've seen the same thing reported hundreds of times. When she says this type of stuff, she actually wants just the opposite. She wants you to feel sorry for her and show her tenderness and sympathy. (Google hard hearted wife). You don't have to be cruel or cold as an ice burg. However, you can't give in to your urges to say something comforting to her. Present a stoic front, and let her wonder how you feel. She is extremely self-centered. It is the nature of the WW. I pray that during this time away, God will confict her heart and she really will repent for the disrespectful treatment she gave you and seek to have the right feelings of a loving W. If she gets her heart right with God, that's a good start in healing the MR...........but, that part is between her and Him. As the H, your part is stepping up to be the dominent male in the MR and in the home. She will have to learn to remove her military uniform when she comes home from work. Lots of women who are in an employed position of authority forget to change hats when they go home.......just like some men forget how to interact with his W and children after dealing with very stressful issues all day at work. Neither of them are going to respond well if they start shouting orders at home. Regardless of their position on the job....both spouses have to regroup, so to speak, and wear the appropriate hat for the home, bedroom, family, etc.

From what she said, I got the idea that she loves me and values our MR and wants to want it, but she doesn't know what to do about the fact she doesn't feel attraction. She said part of the reason she decided to do a horrible thing and cheat was to see if the problem was with her or us. She has made comments in the recent past about questioning her own ability to be sexual; I think she has been wondering what is wrong with her, why can't she feel attracted to me

I think she loves you, but she acts like a spoiled brat. I don't think she knows how to value the MR. At least that's what her actions say. It has gone past being extreme and has gotten completely out of control. I hope you see that you can never allow it again. While she's gone, I hope to talk to you about setting boundaries.

What she said about the sexual issue......I use to feel the same way. I have explained how a W's attraction is tied to her level of respect for her H. I had gone through so many years of a SSM that I thought there was something sexually wrong with me. Yes, my H played a big part, b/c he would not stand up to me and just stonewalled (which was the worst thing he could have done with me). He stopped initiating and even stopped sleeping with me. He was not a dominant male in the bedroom (or anywhere else) that I needed, so it left me feeling as if my insides had died. That is an awful feeling. It was not just the lack of sex, but the lack of an intimate relationship and the sheer loneliness that made me very vulnerable to some man who showed me the right kind of attention. My feminine ego was starving, and once I had a little taste of male attention, it did play a part in tempting me for "more". When I discovered I had normal sexual responses, I felt alive for the first time in years......and I was hooked almost instantly. It's like a strong drug, and that's why it is hard to end an affair.

You may wonder why a WW could sexually respond to another man she hardly knows, much less respect. Her wayward mindset is the biggest reason. Everything about her is rebelling. But you know, anyone can meet a new person and feel a certain attraction, or admiration. Just like when you meet a new friend, you just mind of have that click. However, if it is a sexual attraction, we don't pursue it when we are in a MR, right? But when a woman is wayward, you are dealing with a different breed. If a man stirs her lustful desires......then she will likely go back for more. Whereas previously, her integrity, moral codes, spiritual values and standards, personal boundaries, etc. would have immediately kicked in and put up stop signs.......she runs right through the warnings and allows herself to feel the excitement of pushing the limits.....being naughty.....inappropriate......then cheating, secret affair, Girls Gone Wild, anything taboo, etc. There is no respectful relationship there. It's all lust of the flesh.

If you will continue on your path to being a dominant male in your home, and especially when interacting verbally, physically, and sexually with your W........her attraction will return, if she'll just cooperate. She will have to show respect, even if she doesn't feel it. That is key. It will take her being willing to put away her demanding ways, stop trying to rule over you, and drop the entitlement. A woman does not sexually desire a man she can rule (unless in a kinky female dominant fantasy.....but it doesn't work in a real relationship).

I don't know how she was raised or what type of dynamics she saw between her parents. But, it's never too late to learn something new. There is too much available information out there for her not to learn, if she is willing. She has to be cooperative. She has to put forth the right action in order to get the feelings in return.

The WW operates out of her emotional frame of mind. It's all about "her feelings", which is evident in your W's conversations. The main thing she is concerned about in reconciling or trying again......is how she will feel. Just between you and I, her feelings are not the most important issue right now. Remorse (which is another feeling) is not the most important issue, or even her commitment. The most important thing needed is her willingness to do the necessary work. If she cooperates, then these other things will come........if her heart is right. As long as her heart is resentful and selfish......then those feelings won't come b/c you just can't have a loving, happy MR with resentment, selfishness, and disrespect in the heart.

Forget about the sexual stuff right now. She'll bring it up, b/c she's concerned about her feelings, but I don't want you making it an issue at this time. Don't even try to assure her that the feelings will return. B/c when a man tries to tell a woman about her feelings......it doesn't seem to have a good affect.

When she comes home, and if you decide together to stay in the M, it has to be with the understanding that she is all in.....not just part way. She needs to know that she will sleep in the same bed with you. There are to be no more separate bedrooms while living under the same roof. She is either all in....or all out. She doesn't get to set the rules by what she wants. You are the betrayed spouse, and she cheated, so that pretty much forfeited her game rules. As long as there are separate bedrooms, the chances of increasing an intimate MR is not near as good as when sharing the same bed....and having the same bedtime. Know what I mean?

[AnotherStander]

44, you're getting some really great advice, especially from Sandi and Artista. I'm just going to say that I wholly approve of what they are advising you on how to deal with your WW. If you read other threads on these forums just please keep in mind that your sitch is different than most, you're dealing with the worst kind of lying, rebellious, immature, controlling and manipulative WW. The advice we offer others does not apply to you.

Yours is a textbook case for going well and truly dark and I'm not sure why you haven't done it yet. Don't believe ANYTHING coming out of your W's mouth. She's lying about just kissing OM, she's lying about being worried about you, she's lying about anything and everything. What is the use of talking to her if nothing but lies stacked on lies comes out of her mouth? There is no point. You get nothing from it, she gets nothing from it, your relationship gets nothing. SO STOP!!!! Time to get off the roller coaster.

I think at some point she'll hit rock bottom and then she may come to you with genuine humility, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. She may very well feign humility to bring you back under control so just expect it and be VERY wary. Any apparent attempt on her part to pull you into recon should be met with this response from you: "I don't know what I want, I have a lot of thinking to do and I think it would be best if we remained separated and out of contact for a while."

Also your thread is over 10 pages, time for a new one Post a link to the new one as your last post here and post a link to this thread in the first post in the new one.

[44tries]

Part IV: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2790043&#Post2790043