Had a great trip. Maybe the best trip we've ever had. Best since our honeymoon and in some ways even better than that. We laugh-- at everything-- and joke, play, flirt... just enjoying each other's company and being in the moment. There is a, idunno, an easiness(?) with us that was never there before. I think a lot of it has to do with the openness and honesty and knowing that we don't have to hold anything back with the other anymore, bad or good. The specter of the affair and of the troubles plaguing our relationship prior to that are there, but are fading.
I think the one thing still lacking is the "putting to bed" of the bad stuff. Not to forget it, but to process and make sure there is full accountability and full forgiveness. I think that is what I have been looking for and not knowing what it is the past few weeks. There are significant elements of that in the workbook and exercises that MC had previously given us, but there is also a lot of stuff in there that has been "OBE", so to speak, so it will take some work to extract the necessary components. The end product of that program is a comprehensive "forgiveness letter" from each spouse to the other, that is written independently after several sessions and/or private talks making sure each knows and understands precisely how the other was made to feel by the offending spouse's actions (or inactions) during the MR. There is also a separate forgiveness letter for the affair. The process is supposed to be comprehensive with an airing of both all transgressions by both spouses and discussion to ensure that each spouse knows how the other spouse felt. Then the letters are written and exchanged, and the spouses discuss whether or not they can forgive the other for each of the specific transgressions. It seems like a good model in our case, particularly where we are otherwise getting on so well and seem to have pretty much completely bridged the intimacy gap.
I am not sure that there is all that much left that is "Secret" on either side. I am sure there are some things about the A here and there that I do not know (W acknowledged the hotel night with OM, but did not offer to elaborate), and, on my side, certainly no "secrets" except for how, precisely, I collected info about her affair. There is now nothing left about the affair that I "know" that I have not already told her that I know.
Other than that, the only real hurdle remaining is how we treat her relationship with bff... Which might ultimately become a non-issue with bff moving to FL in a month or so. It was interesting that, for the first time I can recall in a loooooong time for one of our trips, W did not have any contact whatsoever with bff while we were away. She still says she wants to get together with her sometime before bff moves, and, prior to our going to Cancun she had said that bff had invited us both down to visit her in August (an offer I told W point blank I was extremely uncomfortable with and which has not been further discussed) but maybe she's started to give up the security blanket, idk.
I think we're "back." I don't have any little alarm bells going off, and there is nothing suspicious about what she is doing and everything she does seems devoted to me and the boys and the family and the MR. Twice during our getaway, completely un-prompted, she cried a little with her head on my chest and told me how sorry she was that she had done the things that had hurt me so badly. I think it's genuine. It does all seem a little miraculous but... wasn't that what I was looking for if this were going to happen?
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
hoosjim, awesome update! Things look good my friend, very happy for you. My only hesitation is the "miracle" aspect of it you mention, because without the work recovery is so precarious. However, in your case you are in great hands with an excellent MC, so you should be all set as long as you don't stop MC too early.
WB!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Very nice Jim, congrats! I'm glad you're still posting as your info is really valuable because you didn't just try to sweep everything under the rug like some piecing couples do, but you both have made a real effort to get everything out in the open for discussion and addressing with the help of a good counselor. Keep it up, you're doing an awesome job!
So, latest worry (though perhaps just me overanalyzing(?): She may be TOO worried about losing me.
Clings on to me really close when we are out, either holding hands or holding on to my arm. When I cuddle up to her at night, she grips me really close, really tight and says things like "I just don't want to think about being without you." She continues to be very apologetic and deferential... "Sorry I hurt you...etc." and still cries fairly regularly when saying such things. Most noticeably, doesn't get impatient or angry with me, even a little bit, even at times when she CLEARLY should, like when I forget to do something important I promised to do (I used to do this a lot as the "old me", but the new me is a much improved version... but I ain't perfect.) Also, is hesitant to voice disagreement with me, even on issues I know she disagrees, such as handling the boys.
Don't get me wrong, the attitude shift from rebellious ggw is welcome but... I want a partner not a subordinate. I have come around a lot to the "dominant male" mindset, and W seems to respond, but you can have that, IMO, and still have a cooperative partnership as a marriage. I also am a little concerned that if that mindset continues in her, it will not be healthy for the MR. I recall something my pastor said at a service I attended not too long ago concerning relationships in general, and about one of the important philosophies being "I will stay", meaning that in order to have a fully open, honest, and fulfilling relationship, both parties need to know that the other one "will stay", even if the going gets rough. Pretty sure W right now still is not convinced that I "will stay." Might be tougher for her to be honest and work through the tough stuff unless she believes I will.
Or maybe im just looking for reasons to wring my hands.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
I would not worry. It's still very early... On Mother's Day I teared up when my H and sons took me out for an elegant dinner... I teared up because I don't believe I deserve it... I put them through hell... Yes, it's been years, and we are doing well... We are thriving, but what I did tore us apart... I tear up other times too... It's still very early in your situation...
I agree that what you are seeing in your W is probably part of her process in learning how to deal with what she has done. After experiencing remorse and sincerely apologizing to my H, the hardest part for me has been forgiving myself. There are still things that can trigger the painful regret. Regret doesn't seem a strong enough word to use in this context. It's something you can't undo or fix.
My H's health was truly affected from the shock, stress, and hurt of my betrayal. (I mean, I was the last person on earth he would have ever thought would cheat). He had had heart surgery a few years before the A took place. Now, the doctors can't do anything but hope medication will do the job. He has never been one to talk about his feelings. His stress is turned inward, where I talk to vent mine. So, I feel responsible for putting him through that pain and whatever physical damage it may have done to his heart as a result of him reading intimate messages between the OM and me. He did tell me once that the first time he discovered it, his chest hurt so bad he thought he was having a heart attack. Of course, he never told anyone at the time.........b/c that's just the way he is (stubborn and old school).
He would never agree to go to couples counseling. So, we had to work it out ourselves. I was getting help from the board, and read a ton of books. He read a couple, I think. But I still believe it would have helped him if we had gone to MC.
Anyway, I am thrilled to hear you had a great trip and things are so good between you two. Just don't get lazy! When things get too comfortable, that's when we tend to stop working and fall back into old habits. As for the miracle part........I would say it was an answer to prayer.....and two hearts who were willing to put in the hard work. If the WW is not willing.......it's another story.
It almost feels too good to be true when you first start enjoying each other and feeling naturally good. Your W may be experiencing something like, "This is too good to last...something will happen to take it away....to punish me". But IDK......just speculating......it's part of her process.
I am so happy for you guys!! I think this is probably the best happy endings I've read in a long, long time. Not that this is the end, by any means, but you know what I mean, right? I don't want you to stop posting. I just think you will post less & less until you fade away. That's usually how people do. So now I am tearing up and getting sappy.......so I have to stop. Thank you so much for the wonderful update. ((hugs)). I am very happy for you.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Her over bearing fear of losing you is probably what true remorse looks like. She has known she has done very wrong and realizes what she could have lost by her actions. The reality is hitting her.
It won't last forever. Just keep communication open.
When I get a chance (today I hope) I plan to share something on my thread that happened recently in my situation... It's been years since the beginning of my betrayal, but something triggered a memory that brought back a lot of anger I had toward my H before I cheated... Caught me off guard!
It just doesn t seem real at times. I mean, I believe in it, and the feeling is just too good for it to be false, but... just unreal. I was looking back over my journals I had kept, and at so many points it just seemed as if objectively there was no hope. that we were dead, done, finished. And, you know, its funny, for all the mis-steps, and screw ups, and false starts, and other hurdles... there is something that tells me that the path I took to get here may very well have been the only path that would have gotten us here, that it was the path we were intended to take and the only one that would have brought both our hearts to the place they needed to be at the same time to make this work.
It sounds sappy, but I keep thinking back to that meet up that our MC brokered about a week and a half after that ugly weekend where everything seemed to blow up... where we agreed to meet up, just for a short time, in that small backwater town that neither of us had ever been to somewhere between where I had run off to and our home where W had remained. When I saw her come around the corner onto the little mainstreet where I was sitting at on outdoor cafe on just a perfect morning and she saw me and kind of smiled, then dropped her eyes and cried, and looked up again as I approached... I just knew. It was too close to surrender to it and just let her back in at that point, and I didn't want to believe in it but... I knew. The same thing she knew after watching me walk away over a week prior. How those barriers came down for us so quickly, and at the same time, is just miraculous, and wonderful.
And it s not like that giddy, drunken, hormone-soaked limerance infatuation you get with a new boyfriend or girlfriend... It s something better. Maybe not as flamingly passionate, but overall just warmer and more giving (rather than wanting and needing) and, though it may sound unromantic to some, with a deliberate-ness that is in some ways more of turn on. We have chosen to love each other-- and that to me is more sexy than some little cherub with a bow shooting my chosen mate from behind a tree or having the feeling just drop on her out of the sky.
We hold hands and hold each other and make out with each other not just because We cant keep our hands off each other , but because we want to and because we enjoy each other and each others' company. There is an added comfort, too, with knowing each other that takes a lot of the pressure off of things and makes loving each other "fun". She started this thing a couple of weeks back when we got kind of tangled up in bed and both made some type of ouch exclamation about two old people trying to get it on that just gets us both rolling with laughter... the type of thing that between new lovers might be a turnoff just makes things better for us. It happened in Cancun when we were both in the hammock on our outdoor balcony and ended up losing our balance and flipping out of the hammock and crashing to the floor together-- we probably laughed for five minutes straight with tears streaming down our faces. And then we ML and held each other and it was just an amazing evening.
This morning she called me right when she got to work and said Hey,. I just wanted to tell you Thanks for loving me.
Work to do still, and, yah, sure don t want to get complacent but. We re back. Maybe better than ever. And it s amazing. Thanks to my friends, including those on these forums, thanks to DBing, to my DB coach, to our MC/IC, and most importantly thanks to the Good Lord above who has blessed this MR of mine and given it new life.
I hope to be able to continue hanging out here and help others as I have been helped, and W and I have talked some about how we can use our experiences to help other married couples in trouble.
Thanks, all.
And, Artista, I am very interested in hearing your anecdote about how your resentment returned. Something I do want to be on the lookout for in my own sitch
Last edited by Cadet; 05/18/1808:20 AM. Reason: restored post
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
