[s]No[/s] affair, no feelings...is there hope? III

[SteveLW]

One last thing. Also do not fall into the trap of being sorry for what she has done vs. being sorry she got caught. More than likely there is a heavy dose of the latter going on, especially since she started questioning how much you knew you right away. Also, be careful assuming she has told you everything. She probably told you enough to make you feel like she was confessing, but left some things out.

[44tries]

No, no you have not failed anyone, 44. Like I said, this is your life, not mine or anyone else's. Don't feel that way.

So now you feel relief that it is out in the open and you aren't carrying around that burden.

Thank goodness. Now my relief is complete. I really did what I felt needed to be done and I wasn't trying to go against anyone's advice. You guys are the experts

You have to go dark and not communicate by phone with her. Although she expressed regret, she has not actually made a change. This is only a step in the right direction. She needs more time to pull out of her emotional state and think seriously about your feelings rather than her own. She still wants to talk about herself. She wanted to direct blame at you. Have none of it, b/c she has to take responsibility and not put it off on you.

Yes, I could see this. She is still very focused on herself. She didn't blame me for everything, but she still showed that she holds some blame for me in the MR breakdown (not that I am without blame...tricky). I agree and hope that with more time she can start to be able to consider me more and not just herself. At least she took full responsibility for the cheating itself and didn't try to place any blame on me there.

Although she admitted a lot, her treatment of you is habitual, so she will slide back into that mold, easily.

Exactly. I'm not foolish enough to think old habits don't die hard and there will be a lot of work needed to break that mold permanently.

Of course I will do whatever I can to help you. I am not angry with you. I've just seen so many guys react too quickly with a response, before waiting to see what anyone else says. I don't mean to imply that Artista's suggestion was not perfectly stated. I was just concerned you had responded too quickly after saying you wanted to hear from me, and WW was going to manipulate you again. It sounds as if you handled it very well.

Very glad to hear this I was worried I was giving into her, but of course she was not expecting or asking me to confront her. I just felt she was in the right place and I was ready and I'm pretty happy with how it went. It was mostly what I envisioned and I'm glad she didn't continue to lie and deny it or say she wanted a divorce, etc. Obviously, I'm even more glad she has already ended the A, if that is indeed true. I feel I maintained control throughout the whole thing and she felt sufficiently "powerless".

I hope you told her you needed time to think about what you wanted. Yes it will be difficult for her to be there without you, but don't succumb to sympathy for her. She does not need sympathy at this time. She'll want it, but that's the last thing you need to show her. As a WW, she really has to experience this period of knowing she could lose what is most important to her. As long as she's trying to blame you with how she felt, yada, yada.......she is not remorseful, she's just being emotional and feeling sorry for herself.

This is exactly what I told her. She asked if I "knew what I was going to do" and I said I didn't have an answer and needed time. She sort of wondered how I hadn't already thought about it, but I told her it's a lot different now that it's all "real". I did feel those urges to show sympathy, but I knew better. I tried very hard not to be too "caring" without being totally stone cold. She was really quite upset, sobbing and choking at the point where she said she had to hang up the phone. But interestingly, she told me not to show her any compassion. She said she wouldn't blame me if I didn't care about her and she didn't want any sympathy, she didn't deserve it. I'm not sure if that's normal or she was manipulating or what. But I just said okay.

She can't be there in person, so all she can do is try to convince you over the phone. She will want to secure her position in the MR, ASAP. Please don't rescue her by assuring her you aren't going anywhere. If she hounds you too much, turn off the phone. She'll know why!

I am wondering about what she will do. I have not heard anything from her today, don't know if she is respecting my request for time (I didn't give a timeframe) or if she doesn't want to talk or what. Despite her "I don't know how to live without you" type comments, I know she still has reservations about the R. From what she said, I got the idea that she loves me and values our MR and wants to want it, but she doesn't know what to do about the fact she doesn't feel attraction. She said part of the reason she decided to do a horrible thing and cheat was to see if the problem was with her or us. She has made comments in the recent past about questioning her own ability to be sexual; I think she has been wondering what is wrong with her, why can't she feel attracted to me. Anyway, I'm not sure what she will think or feel as she processes. I am a little worried she will come out of all her confusion and still think it's hopeless. But that is her, not me and I can't control it.

Frankly, I am glad this is hitting her hard.....if it's genuine. That is what's needed to shake her hard, stubborn heart. But she still needs more time of not knowing what you are going to do. Do you understand what I mean when I say she "needs" these things? In other words, these things have to happen in order for her to authentically repent from her waywardness and get her heart right with God and with her H.

I agree. I hope it is all genuine, I really believe it was as genuine as she is capable of being right now. She is definitely still stuck in self-absorption, but her remorse is real I think. I do understand she needs to continue to feel insecure about if I would take her back, etc. That is why I was very careful not to give any impression I would be eager to reconcile. She needs time to feel the full weight of everything.

I am in full agreement with Artista about going dark (NC) while your WW is gone. Artista has personal experience with this scenario and could probably be more helpful. She has said she had several false starts at reconciling with her H, so she can see your W with clear vision.

Great, I'm glad there is a consensus and I'm definitely able to do it. As I said above, I didn't really give a timeline for the NC. I told her a few times I needed time and we both needed to process, etc. She was still very upset throughout the whole conversation and all over the place. At the end, I said "we have time and space, let's use it and get some sleep" as it was rather late. I am planning to not contact her but if she contacts me, I will tell her I think it's best if we don't have any more discussion until she is home. She still doesn't have a confirmed date for that so at some point she will have to let me know on that front. I'm sort of glad in a way that all this happened while we have some physical distance. I think it is a big help for me to fight any urge for sympathy etc and give her the time she needs as well as my own. Hopefully, she comes back this weekend and we can go from there.

Artista...if you read this, I would love to hear more about your false starts Sandi mentioned if you are willing to share

I'm not going anywhere. I'll still be here giving my nickle's worth.

((hugs))

Thank you, Sandi. You have been such an amazing help, glad to know I still have your support

[44tries]

One last thing. Also do not fall into the trap of being sorry for what she has done vs. being sorry she got caught. More than likely there is a heavy dose of the latter going on, especially since she started questioning how much you knew you right away. Also, be careful assuming she has told you everything. She probably told you enough to make you feel like she was confessing, but left some things out.

Thank you, Steve! You're right about everything. I know the roller coaster has only just begun. This is just the first checkpoint of this journey. I know she will likely be hot and cold. I will be aware of her trying affection as manipulation, thanks for the tip. I do wonder if that will happen given most of the problem with us is that she doesn't feel attracted to me. But we'll see.

I have thought a lot about how much of her remorse is for what she did or that I forced her to face it. As I said to Sandi, I think she is still very self-focused so that definitely contributes to her feelings of remorse being about her, but I think it was as much as she is capable of right now. I am also taking everything she said about the A with a grain of salt. The good thing is, everything she said checks out with my gut instinct and what I already suspected based on my intel, including when she claims to have ended it. So I don't have a reason to be suspicious yet, but I'm not going to to trust anything more than 50%.

[Mowgli]

Okay, 44.

You handled it as well as you could over the phone. Good on you for that.

first, don't believe her when she says they "just kissed." That's middle school bulls**t. It will all come out in the end and it will be something you may needs answers to before you are on the path to healing.

The next conversation you guys have is going to be pivotal.

The one problem here is that you need to stay NC while she is gone, but you also need to remember that she is thinking about an planning exactly what she is going to say to you, and she has multiple days to figure out her "script."

When Cadet talks about "believing none of what they say, and half of what they do, that is where your head needs to be."

Sani already mentioned that her treatment of you is habitual. Any time the disrespect arises, you stick to your boundary (I will not let anyone talk to me like that, etc.)

She's going to talk a lot about how she wasn't happy. This is your time to say something along the lines of "What? did you think I was fine with the way things were going? I wasn't happy, either."

WWs rewrite the entire R history, putting themselves on a pedestal and make the H out to be some lazy schmuck. You are not that. You were not happy, either, but you didn't voice those concerns because of NGS (just like me, man).

It'll be weird in that She'll kind of half way try to throw you under the bus to justify her actions while trying to apologize at the same time. Don't get sucked in.

[mtb1981]

first, don't believe her when she says they "just kissed." That's middle school bulls**t. It will all come out in the end and it will be something you may needs answers to before you are on the path to healing.

^^^ this... My W tried to tell me her and OM just kissed with a little heavy petting just one time back in January. She just told me this a few weeks ago. I had suspected she was having an A since the end of January, and she constantly denied it and said her and OM were "just friends". But looking at some of her messages in the past months, she would refer to OM as her "side piece" and was obsessed with him. Hiding her van behind a local hotel and spending the night at his place. Why she finally decided to admit they hooked up, I don't know. She had just lost her job, was in need of money and asked me for some in the same convo as her admitting the A. So I assume she knew that I was aware of enough, that she had to throw me a bone to seem sincere. But I'm not stupid. There was more than a one night make out session. Keep your guard up. You're doing good...

[44tries]

Okay, 44.

You handled it as well as you could over the phone. Good on you for that.

Mowgli! Nice to hear from you Thanks, man. I did my best.

first, don't believe her when she says they "just kissed." That's middle school bulls**t. It will all come out in the end and it will be something you may needs answers to before you are on the path to healing.

Yup, huge grain of salt taken there. I'm not overly concerned about it at the moment, but eventually the truth will come out as you say. One of the messages I saw gave me the impression it might really not have gone farther, so that's why I told Steve it "checks out" but I'm totally prepared for the worst.

The next conversation you guys have is going to be pivotal.

Ahh, pressure! Can you explain a little more what you mean by this?

The one problem here is that you need to stay NC while she is gone, but you also need to remember that she is thinking about an planning exactly what she is going to say to you, and she has multiple days to figure out her "script."

When Cadet talks about "believing none of what they say, and half of what they do, that is where your head needs to be."

Right, great point. My guard is remaining fully up throughout all of this. We'll see what she comes up with...

Sani already mentioned that her treatment of you is habitual. Any time the disrespect arises, you stick to your boundary (I will not let anyone talk to me like that, etc.)

This is my number one priority.

She's going to talk a lot about how she wasn't happy. This is your time to say something along the lines of "What? did you think I was fine with the way things were going? I wasn't happy, either."

WWs rewrite the entire R history, putting themselves on a pedestal and make the H out to be some lazy schmuck. You are not that. You were not happy, either, but you didn't voice those concerns because of NGS (just like me, man).

It'll be weird in that She'll kind of half way try to throw you under the bus to justify her actions while trying to apologize at the same time. Don't get sucked in.

I will be prepared for this. I think it's very important. You are totally right about not voicing the concerns due to NGS, and it was such a big factor in creating this whole mess. I will not let my needs be pushed aside any longer.

Thanks so much for your input, man. Hope to hear from you again as my situation progresses.

[44tries]

^^^ this... My W tried to tell me her and OM just kissed with a little heavy petting just one time back in January. She just told me this a few weeks ago. I had suspected she was having an A since the end of January, and she constantly denied it and said her and OM were "just friends". But looking at some of her messages in the past months, she would refer to OM as her "side piece" and was obsessed with him. Hiding her van behind a local hotel and spending the night at his place. Why she finally decided to admit they hooked up, I don't know. She had just lost her job, was in need of money and asked me for some in the same convo as her admitting the A. So I assume she knew that I was aware of enough, that she had to throw me a bone to seem sincere. But I'm not stupid. There was more than a one night make out session. Keep your guard up. You're doing good...

Thanks for your input, mtb. That's rough, if she only admitted it to get money from you. Sorry to hear that. Duly noted, I know the WW is not above all kinds of lies. In my case, at least I do know for sure it was only one night (then he left the country), but one night is enough...

[OrangeK]

Always stay frosty 44.

My WW told me that her A was a One Night Stand when i first confronted her about it. Then She told me it was that night and the morning after. I have since found out she had been seeing him for months, and they are still dating, almost a year later.
When WW and I last spoke in Jan she KNEW i was fully aware of the A and its extent and she still claimed they were just friends and when i caught her at his house they were just "talking"

She had been taking our son on dates with him for months.

"Believe nothing they say and half of what they do"

[SteveLW]

^^^ this... My W tried to tell me her and OM just kissed with a little heavy petting just one time back in January. She just told me this a few weeks ago. I had suspected she was having an A since the end of January, and she constantly denied it and said her and OM were "just friends". But looking at some of her messages in the past months, she would refer to OM as her "side piece" and was obsessed with him. Hiding her van behind a local hotel and spending the night at his place. Why she finally decided to admit they hooked up, I don't know. She had just lost her job, was in need of money and asked me for some in the same convo as her admitting the A. So I assume she knew that I was aware of enough, that she had to throw me a bone to seem sincere. But I'm not stupid. There was more than a one night make out session. Keep your guard up. You're doing good...

Thanks for your input, mtb. That's rough, if she only admitted it to get money from you. Sorry to hear that. Duly noted, I know the WW is not above all kinds of lies. In my case, at least I do know for sure it was only one night (then he left the country), but one night is enough...

The other thing to remember is that kissing is more intimate to women than intercourse. So "just kissing" isn't any better in these instances.

[44tries]

Always stay frosty 44.

My WW told me that her A was a One Night Stand when i first confronted her about it. Then She told me it was that night and the morning after. I have since found out she had been seeing him for months, and they are still dating, almost a year later.
When WW and I last spoke in Jan she KNEW i was fully aware of the A and its extent and she still claimed they were just friends and when i caught her at his house they were just "talking"

She had been taking our son on dates with him for months.

"Believe nothing they say and half of what they do"

Love that phrase, Orange! You're right, should be a motto at all times. WW is capable of anything... staying frosty