[s]No[/s] affair, no feelings...is there hope? III

[sandi2]

I love Maika's interpretation.....and I couldn't agree more! I don't think you should validate how she feels, b/c that's the keyhole she wants to pull you through and work you over.

The only response I think you should give is something like the following: (words in parenthesis are not for her)

"The past several weeks (or however long sleeping in separate beds has lasted) has been difficult for me. You don't want to be with me in an intimate relationship, but you act as if you expect the benefits of my attentiveness, companionship, and accountability. Over the period of our marriage, your selfishness and demanding ways have become increasingly worse, and your sense of entitlement is intolerable. It was not my intentions to ever upset up, but I am not without feelings myself. I had hoped you would eventually realize that marriage is a two-way street of showing appreciation and honor. However, the constant lack of respect you have shown to me is unacceptable, and I've had enough. Neither of us seem to be in a good place at the moment, and I don't think it would be wise to continue further phone communication while you are gone. I plan to take the rest of this time apart to do some very serious thinking about what I want in my future. I suggest you do the same. Just understand that in a separation, you forfeit the right to ask me anything about my personal life, or receive the same benefits that come in a loving marriage relationship. How you feel about me not being straightforward, or accusing me of lying, is too ironic for words. Please do not contact me except for a real emergency".

So, it's wordy.....and maybe too much for a text message. Can you email her? Maybe you can shorten it or reword it more effectively......and sound like you (only not mushy and validating). It needs to be sent all in the same body of text, and no room for a back & forth conversation. You have to avoid a discussion by not giving her a chance to reply before you have your say. And so not respond, b/c she's going to send a blazing text......if she's not in a state of shock. Anyway, I think it's time to make a stand or don't respond at all.. Is it too harsh? No! Is it tough? Yes! And you had better stick to NC for the rest of her time away......or it will lose the effectiveness. I think she'll try everything in the book until she sees you aren't playing and she can't manipulate you with her different shanigans.

I realize this will take courage, but I think you've got the right stuff. You will have time away from her intrusions to plan how to handle things when she gets home. It will give her time to get over her tantrum and may actually start looking at how badly she's treated you (well, that may be expecting too much from her).

If you send what I've written above, it will be like prepping for the confrontation when she gets home........if you still plan to approach her about OM. And if you are ever going to, it has to be as soon as she returns home, IMHO.

I'm sure some other LBS will say you need to validate her feelings, and shouldn't tell her you don't care, etc. But I disagree, b/c this gal needs to have a serious wake up call, and know this is not all about HER! She is telling you all about how upset she is as a manipulation to make you go crawling to her.

Anyway, you can decide to send it, or not respond at all. I don't want to pressure you. This is your life, not mine. It's your decision to make, and you live with the results (good or bad).

[44tries]

Sandi, I told her we should wait to talk face-to-face as artista suggested. I like your response...I am still in the middle of this. She is now saying I am refusing to communicate and that we should discuss me moving when she gets back. "If we can't communicate then it's time to part"...this is turning into a mess. I just want to call her out on the A right now.

[sandi2]

Well shoot. I don't how I missed that from Artista. I spent nearly all morning on that post, so I guess it passed each other somehow, IDK.

I may wrong, but I'm not sure confronting over the phone about the A right now will do one bit of good. That's why I pondered over what to say to her, b/c you don't need to show all your cards at the moment. This about her lack of respect, and she has gotten out of control. She is going to hammer you, trying to get you to crawl. She wants to wear you down.

Okay, just stay strong and don't give in, no matter what she threatens. Like you said, you can't identify with this level of sociopath.

[sandi2]

I am tempted to just get it over with...but I also need some more help and preparation from Sandi

Gee-whiz 44, my post was only three minutes after you said that ^^^^^^^. You didn't wait long, did you?

This is what I mean about her wearing you down. The pressure to just say something was getting to you. If you said exactly what Artista suggested, that's fine, but you must have texted her immediately, or the clock on this board is messed up.

Please don't cave to her, 44. If you do, you'll never resolve this problem and nothing will get better in this M.

[44tries]

Sandi, I'm sorry I feel like I have failed you. But it got me. I couldn't take it anymore. It wasn't her, I was just ready. I am truly 100% ready for my MR to either live or die. I am at peace either way.

So, for better or for worse, here are the results....she broke. Totally and completely. At first she played the question game, "are you assuming?" "how do you know?" etc. I cut it off, was having none of that. I told her I was beyond done with taking any kind of disrespect. Didn't take long, she admitted everything. She said she had gotten drunk, they kissed. She didn't sleep with him. I didn't ask questions, I really don't care. She told me she broke it off two weeks ago, she knew she f*cked up. She hoped she would just never have to tell me so I wouldn't get hurt.

She talked about being unhappy, unattracted to me, but how it was no excuse, blah blah. She said she knows how awful she has treated me, so mean, so entitled, pushed me around left and right. She said she isn't that kind of person. Now, she feels the push pull, she didn't want me and then she felt herself desperately wanting to pull me back. I asked her how she felt (not about the R, just in general), and she said "like I'm going to regret everything for the rest of my life". She bawled and bawled. Eventually she couldn't talk anymore.

I didn't really say a whole lot. Like I said, I didn't really have questions. I didn't cry or offer her any reassurance. Aside from her talking about her frustration with the MR and not feeling like I was warm and loving, we didn't talk about the MR. I just let her have her spill. She ended by texting me after she couldn't talk anymore from crying and said "I deserve everything coming to me. You deserve so much better than the monster I have been. I'll never forgive myself and can't barely live knowing and hearing how awful I was. I don't know how to live without you."

I haven't responded and think I will just say we both need time to think. Sandi, I hope you will still be willing to help me going forward. Strangely, half of my feelings right now are feeling like I have let you and others who have helped me down. I must really have NGS...my journey to kill that monster has only just begun.

Anyway, I know I shouldn't trust her or anything she says...I tried not to break any of the confrontation rules. I was tempted to try and discuss fixing things but I held off.

What's done is done. I feel so much relief. I don't even really want to think about next steps until tomorrow. But, please, if I have not forsaken you all, I would love to hear thoughts I truly cannot emphasize how much this community has helped me get to this point and the time people have taken to read and write to me, I am so humbled, blessed, and eternally grateful.

[44tries]

Sandi, in regards to your post about timing. I did say exactly what artista suggested, and I definitely didn't respond to anything immediately. I think the post where I said I was tempted to just confront her was a good while after I had sent my message that artista had suggested. I feel bad, you spent all morning on that post.

[artista]

So you told her??? You must go dark now. No discussion over the phone!!! Tell her you both need time to think... Tell her to respect your boundary... And stick to it for gosh sake!!!

[44tries]

yes...that is exactly what i said and will stick to it. She said she doesn't know how she can face me. I told her we both needed time and that was that.

[sandi2]

No, no you have not failed anyone, 44. Like I said, this is your life, not mine or anyone else's. Don't feel that way.

So now you feel relief that it is out in the open and you aren't carrying around that burden.

You have to go dark and not communicate by phone with her. Although she expressed regret, she has not actually made a change. This is only a step in the right direction. She needs more time to pull out of her emotional state and think seriously about your feelings rather than her own. She still wants to talk about herself. She wanted to direct blame at you. Have none of it, b/c she has to take responsibility and not put it off on you.

Although she admitted a lot, her treatment of you is habitual, so she will slide back into that mold, easily.

Of course I will do whatever I can to help you. I am not angry with you. I've just seen so many guys react too quickly with a response, before waiting to see what anyone else says. I don't mean to imply that Artista's suggestion was not perfectly stated. I was just concerned you had responded too quickly after saying you wanted to hear from me, and WW was going to manipulate you again. It sounds as if you handled it very well.

I hope you told her you needed time to think about what you wanted. Yes it will be difficult for her to be there without you, but don't succumb to sympathy for her. She does not need sympathy at this time. She'll want it, but that's the last thing you need to show her. As a WW, she really has to experience this period of knowing she could lose what is most important to her. As long as she's trying to blame you with how she felt, yada, yada.......she is not remorseful, she's just being emotional and feeling sorry for herself.

She can't be there in person, so all she can do is try to convince you over the phone. She will want to secure her position in the MR, ASAP. Please don't rescue her by assuring her you aren't going anywhere. If she hounds you too much, turn off the phone. She'll know why!

Frankly, I am glad this is hitting her hard.....if it's genuine. That is what's needed to shake her hard, stubborn heart. But she still needs more time of not knowing what you are going to do. Do you understand what I mean when I say she "needs" these things? In other words, these things have to happen in order for her to authentically repent from her waywardness and get her heart right with God and with her H.

I am in full agreement with Artista about going dark (NC) while your WW is gone. Artista has personal experience with this scenario and could probably be more helpful. She has said she had several false starts at reconciling with her H, so she can see your W with clear vision.

I'm not going anywhere. I'll still be here giving my nickle's worth.

((hugs))

[SteveLW]

44, wow! You finally let the cat out of the bag. It always feels good initially, but please be aware that the rollercoaster ride emotionally isn't over. Please learn from my mistakes. DO NOT REACT TO YOUR EMOTIONS. There will be times when you want to embrace her "remorse" and break what sandi has suggested above about not reassuring her. The advantage you have, like hoosjim in his sitch, is the fear that she may lose you. If you give in to your NGS and say something like "I've been against D from the beginning" she will start to feel she has you right where she wants you.

Also, be aware that she will also continue on the roller-coaster ride. There will be times when she is cold and distant. Times when she will be sad and remorseful. But the most manipulative will be when she is affectionate. I almost guarantee that when she gets back one of the first things she will do is try to seduce you. Remember, if you give in, and when you haven't slept with your W in in a longtime and she is offering that on a silver platter is is HARD not to accept, just remember to not read anything into it. Women use sex to secure a relationship in the beginning, they will try again if they want to secure it again later.

44, you are in good hand with sandi and arista. Good luck my friend.