My Scenario Pt.5 - Big D and Detaching the Monster

[sandi2]

Yes i had considered not going through WW about this, The only other option would have been MIL, and the line of communication needs to be established at least. I cant go through MIL for everything for S3 for the next 15 years.

You may be right, but I have seen it happen. Years ago, my BIL M a woman who was D and had six yr old and two yr old kids. She never directly had contact with her XH. I think the mother helped until the kids were older, and maybe notes were passed back & forth at child swap....I'm not sure. The W just told they never saw or spoke directly to each other. The court decided who had the kids when and on which holidays.....who paid for what bills.....and that was it! I guess that's why I get so amazed at some couples today.

I wont deny this, i dont think it was bad that I was able to test the waters and at least break the complete NC for the sake only of S3 and I'm glad I did. Again, i feel i handled it well, so if i had botched it I would feel a lot worse about being the one to reach out, and I felt so much better after getting that off my shoulders, the fear of first contact had been gnawing at me and once i got it over with and it went well i felt a lot better ABOUT MYSELF.

Ah, now you've messed up and stepped on one of my pet peeves. So, let me use this opportunity to make this perfectly clear to newcomer betrayed/left behind spouses. YOU don't "test the waters"! YOU are the lighthouse that stands high on a rock. You don't get down in the water.....period. You are not some wayward dipping his toes in the water and saying, "Oh, I'm just confused and don't know what I want to make me happy". It irks me to no end when I see a LBH take a DB term like this one that doesn't, and shouldn't, apply to the betrayed/left behind spouse. The reason I get riled about it is b/c I see many LBH's using it as an excuse ...........just like you tried to tack it on the end of yours, as if for good measure. You should have just left off that part, Orange, and stuck with the one you originally stated. You guys think I don't see through your b.s., but I do.

BTW, it's not just you. I've also seen LBH's use the term "temp checking" their WW. What? Come on! That one nearly makes me come unglued. Newcomers get confused easily enough with all we throw at them........without getting mixed up on the terminology around here. Sooooooo.........the LBH does not test the wayward waters, nor does he check his WW's emotional temperature to see what kind of reading he gets. The thermometer would register that she's still wayward, and that's enough. ((hugs)).

Do you think me petitioning to have the TRO lifted is a good idea, or should i just let it be and let it run its course? the circumstances surrounding it are BS and its just making co-parenting a nightmare.

That's between you and your lawyer. I thought it was lifted the other day. So clearly, I don't know much about all that's involved. Vanilla may offer some advice. I don't know how much you've read about parallel parenting, but I hope you'll look it up. It may be a better option, IDK.

How exactly do you mean she doesnt respect herself? Not saying your wrong at all just looking for examples.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record, but it goes back to everything I've said in previous posts about her bad behavior and treatment of others. When a woman doesn't respect herself, she's not likely to show respect for others. If she respected herself, I doubt she would have been chasing a M man and purposely trying to destroy his M.......just b/c she was jealous. She would not have started a R with you and purposely gotten pregnant just to "one up" on her EX and his W. If she respected herself, she would not have engaged in sex two hours into a first date with a man she hardly knew! When a woman respects herself, she has higher moral standards. This woman wanted to hurry and catch up with being married and getting pregnant.......just to show her EX BF. And, she used you to accomplish that goal.


I really appreciate how you took time to explain the whole thing around her pregnancy. I was so stunned, I just thought there had to be something you weren't telling us. And now I'm learning she claimed to have terminated another pregnancy before S3......or maybe two. I don't know how you have any good sense left in your head.

Did you catch her in a lot of lies, other than these you've shared with us? I would not be a bit surprised to hear that habitual lying was a part of her everyday behavior. I have had two people in my family who fit that description, and it is a heartbreak and frustration that just keeps on giving. There is no limit to the imagination of what they will lie about.......and it doesn't have to be for a logical reason (like getting out of trouble). Anyway, I just wondered if this was another problem in her.

Whether is WW or some Personality disorder, nothing excuses her behavior, deception and the pain she has caused S3 and myself. She made conscious premeditated decisions to destroy our life together. whatever psychological label she got stuck with she would need to take responsibility for these decisions before i would have any semblance of a conversation about R with her, one she prompted and asked for. Even then i might not bother

.

Even if she had a psychological label/diagnosis, who knows if she would improve. I realize you still love her, in spite of all she's done.........but my goodness! I fear it would be opening yourself for a life filled with a lot of pain and drama.......and for S3 and any other children born into that union with her. I wish her all the best in the world, but I really hope you won't let her wiggle her little a$$ back into your arms. But, that's not my decision to make.

My, my, my! If this post wasn't so long, I'd tell you I was left speechless!

[OrangeK]

Ah, now you've messed up and stepped on one of my pet peeves. So, let me use this opportunity to make this perfectly clear to newcomer betrayed/left behind spouses. YOU don't "test the waters"! YOU are the lighthouse that stands high on a rock. You don't get down in the water.....period. You are not some wayward dipping his toes in the water and saying, "Oh, I'm just confused and don't know what I want to make me happy". It irks me to no end when I see a LBH take a DB term like this one that doesn't, and shouldn't, apply to the betrayed/left behind spouse. The reason I get riled about it is b/c I see many LBH's using it as an excuse ...........just like you tried to tack it on the end of yours, as if for good measure. You should have just left off that part, Orange, and stuck with the one you originally stated. You guys think I don't see through your b.s., but I do.

Well i wasn't trying to pull the wool over your eyes Sandi, anything less than full transparency would be counterproductive here. Although i totally see your point you are making here, and I plan on adhering to basically what you lay out above, "im not going to backpedal and say i was wrong to do what I did. I still stand by my original statement about how i think it was beneficial to establish that I was in a place to set boundaries and not blindly bend over backwards for any demand or expectation she might have in the future. It did make me feel A LOT more confident in my ability to deal with her in the future when she decides to start handling childcare with me. However moving forward I plan on dealing with MIL unless im totally required to deal with WW.

BTW, it's not just you. I've also seen LBH's use the term "temp checking" their WW. What? Come on! That one nearly makes me come unglued. Newcomers get confused easily enough with all we throw at them........without getting mixed up on the terminology around here. Sooooooo.........the LBH does not test the wayward waters, nor does he check his WW's emotional temperature to see what kind of reading he gets. The thermometer would register that she's still wayward, and that's enough. ((hugs)).

Although i later used the expression "test the waters" in my post, that was not my intention when i reached out to her. Merely to establish some semblance of communication regarding S3. I could give a $hI7 about her emotional temperature. I already know what that is, colder than the 9th circle of Hell. Thermometers dont go down that far into the negative.

That's between you and your lawyer. I thought it was lifted the other day. So clearly, I don't know much about all that's involved. Vanilla may offer some advice. I don't know how much you've read about parallel parenting, but I hope you'll look it up. It may be a better option, IDK.

I dont have a Lawyer anymore for anything regarding the TRO case. Once it was "Resolved" last week, my public defender isn't representing me anymore as the case is closed.
the TRO wasnt life, it was extended a Year at WW's request, and only amended to allow us Text/Email/Mail contact specifically regarding S3 only.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record, but it goes back to everything I've said in previous posts about her bad behavior and treatment of others. When a woman doesn't respect herself, she's not likely to show respect for others. If she respected herself, I doubt she would have been chasing a M man and purposely trying to destroy his M.......just b/c she was jealous. She would not have started a R with you and purposely gotten pregnant just to "one up" on her EX and his W. If she respected herself, she would not have engaged in sex two hours into a first date with a man she hardly knew! When a woman respects herself, she has higher moral standards. This woman wanted to hurry and catch up with being married and getting pregnant.......just to show her EX BF. And, she used you to accomplish that goal.

Yea, she did use me. Its becoming more and more apparent everyday. Still a shock sometimes, to know she was so good at acting the part of a sweet innocent adorable girl who only had a string of bad luck that its still hard to believe she is the malicious parasite that she is.
She is bad luck personified.

I really appreciate how you took time to explain the whole thing around her pregnancy. I was so stunned, I just thought there had to be something you weren't telling us. And now I'm learning she claimed to have terminated another pregnancy before S3......or maybe two. I don't know how you have any good sense left in your head.

What do you mean you dont know how i have any good sense left in my head?
What part hadn't i told you? i think i mentioned all that before in previous posts.
I definitely think the one pregnancy she "terminated" with me was one in the same with my son being born. I think i only ever get her pregnant once. I also believe the "pregnancy" with her EX was false. I think just like she did with me, she temp checked him and lied about being pregnant then had a "termination" to make him feel bad.

Did you catch her in a lot of lies, other than these you've shared with us?

Not during the R, but after BD and up to today? i Learn more things she lied about on a weekly basis.

I would not be a bit surprised to hear that habitual lying was a part of her everyday behavior.

Absolutely 100%
She lies without even thinking about it.
Did you see where i posted about her IG post with our son?
She literally plagurized an Alfred Tennyson quote, and altered it so it was about snacks and claimed my son said it. He doesnt speak full sentences, let alone quote poets.
or last summer when my best friend tagged her and me in a post about us coming up to his camp, but little did i know she was already seeing OM and telling her new circle of friends her and I were already mid divorce, so she deleted our tags off the post so her new friends wouldnt see that her and I were spending time together, and when my friend asked why she deleted the tag she said "oops i deleted it on accident!" She loves photography and took 100s of photos at that trip with the 550$ camera i had bought her to celebrate S3 being born. We did a big group photo, and my best friend kept asking her to post it because it had us all in it. She lied and said she accidentally deleted that as well. She just didn't post it because it contradicted the story about me not being around she had already told OM and her new friends. I have the picture on my laptop, she never deleted it.
LIES. SO many she cant even keep track of them all. Its how she eventually gets caught in lies.
She just did such a good job keeping me distant from anyone from her past that could have revealed her to me, so i had no idea until BD.

Even if she had a psychological label/diagnosis, who knows if she would improve. I realize you still love her, in spite of all she's done.........but my goodness! I fear it would be opening yourself for a life filled with a lot of pain and drama.......and for S3 and any other children born into that union with her. I wish her all the best in the world, but I really hope you won't let her wiggle her little a$$ back into your arms. But, that's not my decision to make.

I don't still love her. I hold a lot of fondness and disappointment for the woman i THOUGHT she was, and THOUGHT i married, but that isn't her. I loved the woman i knew, not the woman who actually exists within her. The illusion is who i miss and love. The illusionist, on the other hand, is a malicious selfish bottom feed of whom i want nothing to do with.
Trust me Sandi, despite being aware she could still pull a string here or there, Her Mask is off, its on the floor. SHe knows she can never hide behind it with me again.
All bets are off.
Divorce, Greystone and she can EFF off. Simple as that.



"I ain't got time to bleed"
~Jesse Ventura - "Predator"

[sandi2]

It did make me feel A LOT more confident in my ability to deal with her in the future when she decides to start handling childcare with me. However moving forward I plan on dealing with MIL unless im totally required to deal with WW.

Like I said, you handled it fine and I'm really glad it gave you a confidence boost, b/c you needed to see that you do have the ability to deal with her. IDK that your W is going to make it easy for you to relay messages through the MIL, since you have already contacted her directly. However, it won't hurt to try, especially about less important things related to S3. Know what I mean?

the TRO wasnt life, it was extended a Year at WW's request, and only amended to allow us Text/Email/Mail contact specifically regarding S3 only.

Okay, thanks for explaining. I'd say to do what is best for you......not for what you may see as having a better opportunity to see her in person. ATM, I would not know how to advise.

Still a shock sometimes, to know she was so good at acting the part of a sweet innocent adorable girl who only had a string of bad luck that its still hard to believe she is the malicious parasite that she is.

I guess that's why she is good at fooling men. She can look the part physically, and then act it. ((hugs))

What do you mean you dont know how i have any good sense left in my head?

It's just an expression, Orange. I was actually trying to show empathy, not sarcasm.

LIES. SO many she cant even keep track of them all. Its how she eventually gets caught in lies.
She just did such a good job keeping me distant from anyone from her past that could have revealed her to me, so i had no idea until BD.

Yes, I've learned that keeping the two parties separated so they don't compare notes and get caught is a strategy they use. I have been told the most outrageous lies, and it makes me so angry. The pitiful thing is that they are so good at the lying (even producing crocodile tears) that you ask yourself if it could be true......b/c you want to believe them so badly. Another thing I am seeing with one, is how going from relationship to relationship.....many of the scenarios are being repeated and only the names have changed. For instance, and much like in your sitch, there seems to be a pregnancy and then a miscarriage in every relationship. So, you begin to realize this all sounds very familiar. Getting them to admit it, however, is an accomplishment I never succeeded, so I gave up trying. I pretty much take every word out their mouth with a grain of salt. I gave up trying to have a meaningful relationship with them, b/c it was mostly based on lies. The anguish they cause is not worth it.

Trust me Sandi, despite being aware she could still pull a string here or there, Her Mask is off, its on the floor. SHe knows she can never hide behind it with me again.

Maybe so. I don't know if it stops them from trying to get away with their lies, but I hope you are right.

[OrangeK]

it's still is very hard to pick up my son and have to listen to him talk about things he did with w w and om and things that they bought him. although he has made it fairly clear that om is not living in the new apartment with w w. he seems to be very chatty on Sunday mornings when I pick him up after he has spent the day with her

[sandi2]

it's still is very hard to pick up my son and have to listen to him talk about things he did with w w and om and things that they bought him. although he has made it fairly clear that om is not living in the new apartment with w w. he seems to be very chatty on Sunday mornings when I pick him up after he has spent the day with her

I know it is, but the new will eventually wear off for him. It would kill my son to hear his little one praising OM about what all he bought or where he took them, etc. Like I've said before, he has to buy your kid's attention/affection. You don't. That's a great little gift that comes at birth that only Daddy gets. Any other man will have to work big time, and it still won't equate to the love your son has for you. Nobody replaces Daddy!

((hugs))

[OrangeK]

He also "my family is broken" today. That hurt

[OrangeK]

Had a rough weekend and morning with S3.
WW doesnt seem to get him to bed at a reasonable hour, so any day after she has him he is difficult and easily upset.

I have been trying my best to maintain during these episodes.

It boggles my mind how she can be going through all of this and not seeing how deeply this is effecting him, and the fact that she didnt even consider what would happen to him when she left the Martial Household and the ripple effect that would cause infuriates me. The most shining example of her putting her needs and wants first. She didn't even stop to consider the ramifactions on him.

He gets upset at trivial little things like if a snack isn't opened the right way, or when he doesn't want socks on.
These seem normal for a three year old, but they seem to me to be amplified. When he gets upset when he is around me he has been crying "Maaamaaaaa maaaamaaaaa" a lot. i mean A LOT.
This has me wondering 1 of two things.
Either he veiws me as "the bad guy" and he just wants her to console him, (she has always been a pushover with him, not good at keeping boundaries or being a disciplinarian)
or
He isn't seeing her nearly enough and when he is upset he cries for her because he misses her. She can see him all day Wednesday as that is her day off, and the one day of the week she has him all day. Instead of spending her day off with her son, she pays to take him to daycare so she can spend the day on herself or with OM. She has been doing this for about a year. The other day she has him on a day off is Saturday and i know there have been occasions where he spent the day with her parents, not her.

I brought some of this up to the daycare today and they told me "We notice he is better behaved on days you drop him off, we see that you have taken charge of parenting since the breakup"
I responded by saying "i didn't want to say anything, i dont want to be that parent in here trying to make her look bad, that isn't my goal. I just want S3 to be happy"

I just wanted my son to have a whole, happy family.
this [censored]. Poor guy....

[mtb1981]

He also "my family is broken" today. That hurt

That $ucks. There has been some depressing chatter about divorce coming from my kids as well. It's tough. W's mom is on her third marriage. So is her father and grandmother. I think my W is just numb to the idea of D. Like it's just some normal thing to do when you get to a rough spot in your M. She has told me several times that it won't affect the kids. But she forgets about all the times she's told me in the past about how her mom got a job as a bartender and left her and her brother at home with their stepdad for days at a time (sounds familiar, doesn't it?)and the effect it had on her. She felt abandoned and still holds this against her mother. She has told me in the past that she thinks a lot of her issues stem from her crappy childhood in a broken home being bounced back and forth between her parents. It blows my mind that she can't see she's doing the exact same thing to her kids now, but there's nothing I can do to make her see it. I just feel bad for the kids. They don't understand what's going on. They just know they don't like it...

[SteveLW]

Had a rough weekend and morning with S3.
WW doesnt seem to get him to bed at a reasonable hour, so any day after she has him he is difficult and easily upset.

I have been trying my best to maintain during these episodes.

It boggles my mind how she can be going through all of this and not seeing how deeply this is effecting him, and the fact that she didnt even consider what would happen to him when she left the Martial Household and the ripple effect that would cause infuriates me. The most shining example of her putting her needs and wants first. She didn't even stop to consider the ramifactions on him.

He gets upset at trivial little things like if a snack isn't opened the right way, or when he doesn't want socks on.
These seem normal for a three year old, but they seem to me to be amplified. When he gets upset when he is around me he has been crying "Maaamaaaaa maaaamaaaaa" a lot. i mean A LOT.
This has me wondering 1 of two things.
Either he veiws me as "the bad guy" and he just wants her to console him, (she has always been a pushover with him, not good at keeping boundaries or being a disciplinarian)
or
He isn't seeing her nearly enough and when he is upset he cries for her because he misses her. She can see him all day Wednesday as that is her day off, and the one day of the week she has him all day. Instead of spending her day off with her son, she pays to take him to daycare so she can spend the day on herself or with OM. She has been doing this for about a year. The other day she has him on a day off is Saturday and i know there have been occasions where he spent the day with her parents, not her.

I brought some of this up to the daycare today and they told me "We notice he is better behaved on days you drop him off, we see that you have taken charge of parenting since the breakup"
I responded by saying "i didn't want to say anything, i dont want to be that parent in here trying to make her look bad, that isn't my goal. I just want S3 to be happy"

I just wanted my son to have a whole, happy family.
this [censored]. Poor guy....

OK, this all probably has a lot more to do with being shuffled back and forth between you and her, than it does any type of sleep pattern. These kinds of things are hard on kids. He is only 3 and has very little in the way of coping, except acting out and being exactly as how you describe. This is why WAS/WWs are so selfish, because they are destroying live and do not even care. Look at what she has done to you, to him, to her mom, not to mention countless others that are inconvenienced and in pain over what the two of you are going through.

Stay strong for him, but also be patient. The little guy is in an extremely sub-optimal situation, and at only 3 is having a lot of trouble processing everything.

[OrangeK]

Yea here is our awful schedule at the moment

Sunday - I piuck him up from MIL at 10am and keep him all day

Monday - I drop him off at daycare at 8:30am, and pick him up at 6.
I then drive 40 min to drop him off with MIL. HE sleeps with WW (either at MIL's house or her apartment, which i still dont know where it is despite the fact my son sleeps there)

Tuesday - She brings him to school, i pick him up at 6pm and bring him to my grandparents house (he LOVES it here, big farm like area, lots to do. looks forward to it every week). I do this so i can go to my Volunteer Fire Dept meetings. She picks him up from my grandparents around 8:30pm.

Wednesday - Her day off, she has him all day and all night. Drops him at daycare and goes off galavanting.

Thursday - She drops him off at school, i pick him up and have him overnight.

Friday - I Drop him off and pick him up, i have him overnight.

Saturday - I meet up with MIL near my house at 9am and drop him off with her.




This schedule is this way strictly to accommodate WW's schedule where she works till 8pm most nights and isnt available to pick him up from school except on Wednesdays.
I work 9-5:30 and could do pickup and drop off Mon-Fri, but that isnt acceptable for her.