My Scenario Pt.5 - Big D and Detaching the Monster

[OrangeK]

I still get the temptation to call her out on all her BS.
If I know it is counterproductive and would just be turned around to make me look bad, why is it still so tempting to do??

Still having trouble detaching. I don't MISS her like i had been, but she still occupies a lot of my head space and I still get pretty angry when hear about her or think about what shes done and what shes doing.
For some reason the thought of her with OM still drives me crazy, and i do still get jealous of him. Which doesn't make sense to me because i know i wouldn't go back to the R we had. EVER. Its either a totally new one and she has sought therapy and is healing, or nothing.
SO why the jealousy, anger?


Still miles ahead of where I was two days ago, but the temptation to try and talk some bloody accountability out of her is still strong, despite knowing it is fruitless.

I guess im just STILL in shock of how someone could marry someone, knowing they weren't invested, and blow it all to bits a few short months later.
Nothing she does makes sense.

[sandi2]

I feel great about how things went yesterday. Keeping up that theme.

You did really well, and I'm glad if it was a confidence booster. I just want to caution you about getting thoughts of contacting her about other things any time soon. I've seen this happen with men. They feel good about how they handled something with the WW, and can't wait to show her how well he'll handle it again.

Frankly, I was not at all surprised something popped up that you thought you needed to make contact with her. Remember, I had predicted that this would happen. You went three months without making contact, and the very day you get the first handy excuse......wham, you contact her the same day! Did you even try to figure out how to resolve it without directly contacting her? I have my doubts, b/c you were too excited about using S3's physical as a legit reason. I mean, you couldn't wait to see her response! So, if you had heard that S3 needed his physical during the period the TRO was active, how would you have handled it then? See what I mean? I'm not picking on you. I'm not saying you did something wrong. I am using this situation to show you how LBH's will subconsciously use their kids, bills,holidays, special events, or whatever as their excuse to directly contact with their WW. You should see how childless LBS's panic b/c they can't find a common link to use as an excuse to contact the wayward spouse.

My advice is don't directly interact with her unless there is absolutely no other way to handle something. Why? B/c you said you want her to leave you alone! Right? Every time you contact her, there is a chance of opening the door wider to let her get in and do some type of damage again. If the EX BF had slammed that door shut hard & fast and told her where to go, maybe that MR would not have suffered from the hands of your jealous WW. Somehow, she got a crack in the door and then kept pushing her way to get inside, even pretending to be friends with his pregnant W. That's pretty low! What if that lady had been so tramatized by your W that she lost her baby? These are things that you watch on tv's lifetime movie channel....but it happens IRL, too.

Considering how she affects you, the less contact the better for you, IMHO. If it were me, I would do nearly anything to not contact her until after the court date. Let that be a short term goal. If it is a situation where you absolutely must contact her, then don't get too wordy, trying to be nicy-nice. Know what I mean? Be polite, but you aren't looking to make bosom pals with her. Who cares if she gets short or doesn't like what you have to say? The WW doesn't have to have a logical reason to get angry at her H. Better that she gets angry and respects you, than disgusted and disrespects you.

I still very much desire sex with her. If she chose that tactic i think i would find it hard to resist. I dont think it would instantly set me back to being in love with her, and i know id still know her true colors after the fact, but right now, id probably still go for it if she made it available. If im being honest.

That's what I mean about how she still affects you. If she hit on you tonight, I don't think you'd even try to hold her off. Sorry, but I am being honest, too. You really have to stay away from all contact until you get much more detached and you aren't having the mind spinning episodes like you've experienced. Unless, of course, you want to experience that hell all over again. This woman does not respect people or relationships, including her own. Do you hear what I am saying? She doesn't even respect herself! So as long as it makes you feel weak to just think about her sexually......stay the heck away and as far as possible.

BTW, was she the first girl you ever had sexually?

What questions did i ignore? if i did it wasn't intentional, your reply's are the ones i look forward to most, your input is invaluable.

Well, thanks, that is pretty great for you to say. At the moment, I can't even remember what all I've asked, but I was mainly referring to my questions about her hiding the pregnancy for six months. How did she keep it hidden from you? Wasn't her stomach getting considerably large? And I asked about her periods and if she faked having one every month. That kind of deception is just so twisted.......it's creepy. And when you confronted her about the "bump", (at six months, it's more than must a bump), I think you said she had not planned to reveal it. So I am curious to know how she responded and what answers she gave for hidding it for six months. When did she plan to tell you? Surely you had a lot of questions you wanted answered. It is the most illogical act of all the stories I have read. How did she respond when you confronted her?

BTW, I read something about her taking BC pills and telling you they were behind her skipping periods, etc. But I want to know if you did not ask her anything about periods during that six month range. Did she use the BC pills as her excuse when you confronted her about the pregnancy........or was that her answer about not having periods? Was she claiming she didn't know she was six months pregnant? Which is hard to believe, but I've heard it has happened with some women. (I felt like a three-ring circus act was performing inside my belly, so it's hard to grasp that a woman doesn't know).

FIL was charged, and pleaded down a charge of Fel. Sexual Assault on Minor. His 2nd Daughter from his 2nd marriage. WW's half sister, 15 years her junior. (WW' was 18 and Half Sister was 4 when this all occurred)
DISCLAIMER - i was told from the get go that FIL's 2nd wife was "CRAZY" and "accused him of things he never did"
Thats all the info i ever got from WW about this.
I suspect FIL may have done this to WW as well at that age, the exact age she was when MIL VERY ABRUPTLY left FIL while he was away on business.
Seems like she discovered something and bailed as quick as possible.
It would explain the root of her issues for sure.....So Sad if its true.

I kind of felt you were hinting about something along that line. As I expressed in one of my early posts, I wondered if there was something in her past that messed with her head. There seems to be a lot of coverup about it. If she was not molested, then why would she not discuss it with her H? Again, it makes no sense to me. None of this makes any sense! That is one reason I wanted Vanilla to read your thread and give her thoughts. She has done a lot of studying about personality disorders, etc. From what you've said, you have too. Vanilla's posts sounded to me as if she thought your W was a strong case of waywardness, and unless I missed it, she didn't express noticing anything particularly ......psychologically speaking. (I may not be wording this correctly). Did you feel this was the message in her posts? I think she was waiting until after the TRO court appearance before discussing more with you.......so, hopefully, more is coming. (She is extremely busy studying and preparing for exams, etc.)

It has been my experience to see LBH's choose to believe their W is suffering from MLC or some emotional issue from the past, rather than believe their W is wayward. This is astonishing to me! I have seen many newcomer H's move over to the MLC forum b/c they could not accept that the girl they M had become wayward......and they believed it just had to be something else. Plus, some (certainly not all) H's just could not muster the tougher side of love that waywards need. They mistakenly felt if it was labeled a MLC then the H would not be required to apply any tough love. .

I have felt that there is more to your W's issues than meets the eye. But it's strictly my perception. Based on the history you've provided, she was basically this person when you met her.......but she deceived you into thinking she was something much different. There are some girls who have a wayward mindset from a very early age. I have seen this IRL, and they would come from a stable home. However, let me add this.......IRL cases I knew personally, the girls did not have strict discipline and/or given consistsnt boundaries from her parents. That's just what I have witnessed up close, and a couple of cases were in my in-law families or other relatives where I knew a lot about it. One case I have observed since the girl was four years old. I am fourteen years older than her, and down through the years I have seen her scortch a path of broken hearts and broken homes.......and has been through so many relationships, I've lost count. She'll deceive a new man until she gets that ring, and the same old behavior pattern comes out again. So, for these particular women, that wayward mindset was carried over into their adult relationships. Unless they M a strong alpha male who got their number pretty quickly.....the M didn't last. But most times, these girls would M a nice guy-- who would have done anything to save the MR. Before M, they would pretend to be this sweet girl that most guys imagine taking home to meet his family, right? They were deceived! The same behavior would play out as we often see here on the board. The only time I saw positive change in any of these of the young wayward types (wayward before they were married), would be somewhere down the road when they would meet a man who was much stronger, and kept them in line by having strict boundaries. The W would either respect the boundary or she'd get kicked out. In the accounts I knew about, the girls/women fell head over heels in love with the man that was tough enough to hold her feet to the fire. Funny enough, that's been the same story I've seen on the board.

I don't believe for a second that your W turned wayward after you placed a ring on her finger. I think whatever was the case with her, was there before you even met her.........be it waywardness or whatever. She was a good actress and deceived you into thinking she was this special, lovely creature that M you. Little by little the truth is coming out about her. You may never know about her past. If she is never evaluated by a psychiatrist, there may never be answers. Currently, there have been no signs (that I've read) that she is seeking any type of professional help, so I'm afraid she will continue to leave a path of destruction due to the way she thinks and acts.......and the utter disrespect she holds for the feelings of others.

Here is what I want you to realize about waywardness. It is always a choice. Nobody or no tragic past forced her to be wayward. It is always a choice, just as it is a choice to end the wayward mindset and behavior and start doing the right thing. To me, waywardness is knowing what is right and decent, but choosing what is wrong and deceitful.

Let me give you another tidbit to keep under your hat whenever you need it. Even a terrible WW knows how rotten she treated her H. In spite of her self justification, she knows she did him wrong. She knows! Okay? So, the more he tries to win her back, the less she respects him as a man, and the less she'll ever want him.

((hugs))

[OrangeK]

You did really well, and I'm glad if it was a confidence booster. I just want to caution you about getting thoughts of contacting her about other things any time soon. I've seen this happen with men. They feel good about how they handled something with the WW, and can't wait to show her how well he'll handle it again.

Thanks, I had a reason yesterday i could have reached out to her and i decided it wasnt worth it. (It was about S3, but wasnt crucial) so i left it alone. I dont plan on reaching out again unless its an emergency.

Frankly, I was not at all surprised something popped up that you thought you needed to make contact with her. Remember, I had predicted that this would happen. You went three months without making contact, and the very day you get the first handy excuse......wham, you contact her the same day! Did you even try to figure out how to resolve it without directly contacting her?

Yes i had considered not going through WW about this, The only other option would have been MIL, and the line of communication needs to be established at least. I cant go through MIL for everything for S3 for the next 15 years.

I have my doubts, b/c you were too excited about using S3's physical as a legit reason. I mean, you couldn't wait to see her response!

I wont deny this, i dont think it was bad that I was able to test the waters and at least break the complete NC for the sake only of S3 and I'm glad I did. Again, i feel i handled it well, so if i had botched it I would feel a lot worse about being the one to reach out, and I felt so much better after getting that off my shoulders, the fear of first contact had been gnawing at me and once i got it over with and it went well i felt a lot better ABOUT MYSELF.

So, if you had heard that S3 needed his physical during the period the TRO was active, how would you have handled it then? See what I mean? I'm not picking on you. I'm not saying you did something wrong. I am using this situation to show you how LBH's will subconsciously use their kids, bills,holidays, special events, or whatever as their excuse to directly contact with their WW. You should see how childless LBS's panic b/c they can't find a common link to use as an excuse to contact the wayward spouse.

I obviously would have HAD to go to MIL about it if the TRO hadn't been amended (its still active, just changed conditions)
I can see what you mean. I think my above explanation as to why i chose to contact her stands here as well.

My advice is don't directly interact with her unless there is absolutely no other way to handle something. Why? B/c you said you want her to leave you alone! Right? Every time you contact her, there is a chance of opening the door wider to let her get in and do some type of damage again. If the EX BF had slammed that door shut hard & fast and told her where to go, maybe that MR would not have suffered from the hands of your jealous WW. Somehow, she got a crack in the door and then kept pushing her way to get inside, even pretending to be friends with his pregnant W. That's pretty low! What if that lady had been so traumatized by your W that she lost her baby? These are things that you watch on tv's lifetime movie channel....but it happens IRL, too.

Considering how she affects you, the less contact the better for you, IMHO. If it were me, I would do nearly anything to not contact her until after the court date. Let that be a short term goal. If it is a situation where you absolutely must contact her, then don't get too wordy, trying to be nicy-nice. Know what I mean? Be polite, but you aren't looking to make bosom pals with her. Who cares if she gets short or doesn't like what you have to say? The WW doesn't have to have a logical reason to get angry at her H. Better that she gets angry and respects you, than disgusted and disrespects you.

Yea shes done some pretty low stuff for sure. Like I said i wont be contacting her again unless its urgent. Next court date is May 22 for Divorce hearing.
Do you think me petitioning to have the TRO lifted is a good idea, or should i just let it be and let it run its course? the circumstances surrounding it are BS and its just making co-parenting a nightmare.

That's what I mean about how she still affects you. If she hit on you tonight, I don't think you'd even try to hold her off. Sorry, but I am being honest, too. You really have to stay away from all contact until you get much more detached and you aren't having the mind spinning episodes like you've experienced. Unless, of course, you want to experience that hell all over again. This woman does not respect people or relationships, including her own. Do you hear what I am saying? She doesn't even respect herself! So as long as it makes you feel weak to just think about her sexually......stay the heck away and as far as possible.

Youre probably right. Not going to happen so we dont need to worry about it i guess.
How exactly do you mean she doesnt respect herself? Not saying your wrong at all just looking for examples.

BTW, was she the first girl you ever had sexually?

No, certainly not.

Well, thanks, that is pretty great for you to say. At the moment, I can't even remember what all I've asked, but I was mainly referring to my questions about her hiding the pregnancy for six months. How did she keep it hidden from you? Wasn't her stomach getting considerably large? And I asked about her periods and if she faked having one every month. That kind of deception is just so twisted.......it's creepy. And when you confronted her about the "bump", (at six months, it's more than must a bump), I think you said she had not planned to reveal it. So I am curious to know how she responded and what answers she gave for hiding it for six months. When did she plan to tell you? Surely you had a lot of questions you wanted answered. It is the most illogical act of all the stories I have read. How did she respond when you confronted her?

How did she keep it hidden from you?
Well she did'nt ever have morning sickness or anything like that, she didnt show until really late (see below) and she was seemingly just careful about what she wore and did. I know a lot of my friends became suspicious of it before I did. Hard to notice change in what you see every day, you know? I wasnt looking for it so i didnt notice it.

Wasn't her stomach getting considerably large?
She is very petite, probably 105lbs before getting pregnant. She didnt show until really late in the pregnancy.

And I asked about her periods and if she faked having one every month.
Did you see the explanation i gave Steve about the Skipping the placebo thing?
That was her explanation for not noticing missed periods once I knew about the pregnancy.

That kind of deception is just so twisted.......it's creepy
It really is, considering I now know she got preg on purpose and knew about it from Day 1 and was even telling her "friends" about it. Said she handnt told me yet to her friends because "She was scared about how I'd take the news, and didnt know what to do herself either, it was all a surprise!" Pfft. Yea ok.

And when you confronted her about the "bump", (at six months, it's more than must a bump), I think you said she had not planned to reveal it. So I am curious to know how she responded and what answers she gave for hiding it for six months.
I found out one night after sex. she was nude and I finally noticed the bump, honestly Sandi even at 6 months it was not that big at all. What you would normally see at like 3-4 months at best.
She reacted like she was scared to tell me, wasn't sure how id react. She just acted shocked and at a loss for words. I reacted very shocked and like "Oh man what are we gonna do" but i warmed to the idea very quickly and became very excited to have a child with her. i was so in love. had already planned on proposing at that point.
As far as answers, she explained the "skipping placebo and why no periods" thing, which made sense to me. We were monogamous and using BC Pills so i wasn't using condoms, i chalked it up to being the 0.01% of the 99.99% effectiveness on Birth control. figured maybe she had taken some antibiotics and screwed up her pills, or just forgot them or messed it up.
She also claimed to have gotten pregnant a few months prior and terminated before talking to me about it. She recently threw this in my face and said i was inconsiderate not to go to that appointment with her, and i told her she never informed me of it until after she denied that.
I had been diligent for a few weeks after that to check she was taking her BC pills properly, and she told me recently that "when you started asking about my BC pills is one of the first times i began to dislike parts of you, you didn't trust me"
I don't think there ever was a 1st pregnancy, i think it was to test my reaction about getting pregnant. i think the "appointment" She had a "termination" at was an appointment ton confirm her pregnancy that we ended up keeping.
She also said something to her EX's wife in that text exchange about how her an EX terminated a pregnancy. Which EX never mentioned to me, not sure if that actually happened.


Surely you had a lot of questions you wanted answered.
I did, and she had answers at the ready that i believed. Friends and family...not so much, but nobody ever said anything to me until after S3 was born.

How did she respond when you confronted her?
See above. She acted scared and surprised. Playing the victim per usual.

I kind of felt you were hinting about something along that line. As I expressed in one of my early posts, I wondered if there was something in her past that messed with her head. There seems to be a lot of coverup about it. If she was not molested, then why would she not discuss it with her H? Again, it makes no sense to me. None of this makes any sense! That is one reason I wanted Vanilla to read your thread and give her thoughts. She has done a lot of studying about personality disorders, etc. From what you've said, you have too. Vanilla's posts sounded to me as if she thought your W was a strong case of waywardness, and unless I missed it, she didn't express noticing anything particularly ......psychologically speaking. (I may not be wording this correctly). Did you feel this was the message in her posts? I think she was waiting until after the TRO court appearance before discussing more with you.......so, hopefully, more is coming. (She is extremely busy studying and preparing for exams, etc.)

I know she has a lot on her plate, and I am anticipating her response when she has time.
Im not sure where she stands on Extreme WW vs. Personality Disorder.
Im still on the fence about that determination mysekf, and im obviously not a Psych so i cant definitively make any call in that regard.
My gut tells me she is a combo of some trauma in childhood, which gave her a very immature emotional base and a lot of internal self image issues and some heavy narcissistic traits but i dont think she has full blown NPD or BPD. That's just my layman's interpretation based on my close interactions and study of her behaviors.

It has been my experience to see LBH's choose to believe their W is suffering from MLC or some emotional issue from the past, rather than believe their W is wayward. This is astonishing to me! I have seen many newcomer H's move over to the MLC forum b/c they could not accept that the girl they M had become wayward......and they believed it just had to be something else. Plus, some (certainly not all) H's just could not muster the tougher side of love that wayward need. They mistakenly felt if it was labeled a MLC then the H would not be required to apply any tough love. .

Whether is WW or some Personality disorder, nothing excuses her behavior, deception and the pain she has caused S3 and myself. She made conscious premeditated decisions to destroy our life together. whatever psychological label she got stuck with she would need to take responsibility for these decisions before i would have any semblance of a conversation about R with her, one she prompted and asked for. Even then i might not bother.

I have felt that there is more to your W's issues than meets the eye. But it's strictly my perception. Based on the history you've provided, she was basically this person when you met her.......but she deceived you into thinking she was something much different. There are some girls who have a wayward mindset from a very early age. I have seen this IRL, and they would come from a stable home. However, let me add this.......IRL cases I knew personally, the girls did not have strict discipline and/or given consistsnt boundaries from her parents. That's just what I have witnessed up close, and a couple of cases were in my in-law families or other relatives where I knew a lot about it. One case I have observed since the girl was four years old. I am fourteen years older than her, and down through the years I have seen her scortch a path of broken hearts and broken homes.......and has been through so many relationships, I've lost count. She'll deceive a new man until she gets that ring, and the same old behavior pattern comes out again. So, for these particular women, that wayward mindset was carried over into their adult relationships. Unless they M a strong alpha male who got their number pretty quickly.....the M didn't last. But most times, these girls would M a nice guy-- who would have done anything to save the MR. Before M, they would pretend to be this sweet girl that most guys imagine taking home to meet his family, right? They were deceived! The same behavior would play out as we often see here on the board. The only time I saw positive change in any of these of the young wayward types (wayward before they were married), would be somewhere down the road when they would meet a man who was much stronger, and kept them in line by having strict boundaries. The W would either respect the boundary or she'd get kicked out. In the accounts I knew about, the girls/women fell head over heels in love with the man that was tough enough to hold her feet to the fire. Funny enough, that's been the same story I've seen on the board.

She will never seek out someone who would be dominant over her. She will just cut through a herd of NGS's throughout her life. Unless she has some breakthrough and makes some serious changes in her life i do not see this ever happening. She thinks too highly of herself to do this, she is entitled to a fault, but you'd never hear her actually SAY it.

I don't believe for a second that your W turned wayward after you placed a ring on her finger. I think whatever was the case with her, was there before you even met her.........be it waywardness or whatever. She was a good actress and deceived you into thinking she was this special, lovely creature that M you. Little by little the truth is coming out about her. You may never know about her past. If she is never evaluated by a psychiatrist, there may never be answers. Currently, there have been no signs (that I've read) that she is seeking any type of professional help, so I'm afraid she will continue to leave a path of destruction due to the way she thinks and acts.......and the utter disrespect she holds for the feelings of others.

Hit the nail on the head here Sandi. Not much for me to say, you already said it. She is not seeking IC that i have been made aware of, when i brought it up in the last MC meeting the same days as the "trunk incident" that resulted in the TRO, she literally said "I dont need a councilor or therapy, you do but i dont". Entitled to a fault.

Here is what I want you to realize about waywardness. It is always a choice. Nobody or no tragic past forced her to be wayward. It is always a choice, just as it is a choice to end the wayward mindset and behavior and start doing the right thing. To me, waywardness is knowing what is right and decent, but choosing what is wrong and deceitful.

Let me give you another tidbit to keep under your hat whenever you need it. Even a terrible WW knows how rotten she treated her H. In spite of her self justification, she knows she did him wrong. She knows! Okay? So, the more he tries to win her back, the less she respects him as a man, and the less she'll ever want him.

This really hit home, as its what ive been preaching to myself whenever it hit a low spot.
"Its not your fault"
"She did this to you, you were a good husband"
"she is damaged, you were a victim"

Thinking she is just going on with life pretending nothing is wrong has really gotten under my skin. to hear you say "She KNOWS what she did" is very healing to me.
I have mentioned "accountability" numerous times, knowing that she is aware of what she did and at least feels some form of shame, guilt or remorse for the horrendous sH!7 she has done, then i can sleep a little easier.
She may have already passed a stage of guilt/remorse or it may not hive hit her yet, but I know at some point it did or it will, because she isn't 100% soul-less, i know she has compartmentalized what she has done, but its still in a box in her mind with all her other skeletons, and for what i know about how self critical she can be, i know that box gets opened in the dark hours of the night. She doesn't act like on, but IS an adult and knows the full extent of what shes done.
I have made strides of progress in the last few days i feel like. i know there will still be ups and downs.

Thank you Sandi, you are a continuing inspiration.
(((hugs back)))


Big shoutout to Makia, JoeJoe, Joseph9, Steve, Sandi, Vanilla and MTB. you all have been crucial in my journey. thank you all so much. I am so grateful to have found this site.

[AnotherStander]

Orange, I just found your "Ok. So Here we go. Grab your beverages folks, i got a feeling this is gonna be a long one." post in your last thread and read it. Wow. I mean... WOW! It's not very often where I read a post and think "OMG this guy needs to RUN as fast as he can away from this disaster of a woman", it's happened maybe 3 or 4 times over the years but yours is definitely in that count. She doesn't sound like a WAS or WAW so much, she sounds more like someone that cannot seriously commit to a relationship. She's a serial cheater, a liar and someone with questionable moral integrity. Always has been and probably always will be. One thing I'm curious about, you mentioned contacting her ex and learning some things but you didn't elaborate. Was it more or less just validation of all the craziness you've seen from her?

Also I'm curious, you've mentioned still loving her, are you still hoping to recon some day?

As a side note after my D I briefly dated a woman that I later figured out was narcissistic, controlling, manipulative and probably bipolar. The problem was she was also beautiful, radiant and had an irresistible (at least to me) personality. I was really smitten with her. But, having just emerged from BD, S and D I was a little more street-wise and tough-skinned than before. When the warning signs started showing up I was not so blinded by her aura that I couldn't see them and eventually broke it off. I still think of her fondly but I am SO GLAD I got out of that relationship. Of course I wasn't glad at the time, it hurt to part ways. But looking back I can see the R more clearly and realize it was a house of cards built on a foundation of sand. I see yours the same way, I mean if recon is your goal then we of course are here to support you but I can't imagine you'll ever have a healthy, strong, satisfying M with this woman.

Good luck Orange!

[SteveLW]

AS, great post. One truth I've learned with the problems in my MR:

You shouldn't try to find someone you are crazy about, you should find someone that is crazy about you.

I spent my younger years chasing women that I was so infatuated with. Finally caught one. I should have chosen from the myriad of women that were so in awe of me. For some reason that was always a turn off for me, and now I regret that.

There was one young lady that thought I walked on water. She was cute, but her unending pursuit of me was a real turn off. Now, 25 years later I realize she was someone I should have potentially married.

Learn the hard way...........

[OrangeK]

Orange, I just found your "Ok. So Here we go. Grab your beverages folks, i got a feeling this is gonna be a long one." post in your last thread and read it. Wow. I mean... WOW! It's not very often where I read a post and think "OMG this guy needs to RUN as fast as he can away from this disaster of a woman", it's happened maybe 3 or 4 times over the years but yours is definitely in that count.

Posting and reading here has made me realize how uncommon and chaotic my sitch really is. Boy i sure can pick em'!! my GF from when i was 17-22 was potentially just as crazy, i was just young and didn't GAS when she split on me, but looking back the two were very similar. What, am i some sort of succubus magnet?
I still struggle from time to time with the dissonance that my Wife really is this spiteful and cruel, and that the woman i loved and married never actually existed.

She doesn't sound like a WAS or WAW so much, she sounds more like someone that cannot seriously commit to a relationship. She's a serial cheater, a liar and someone with questionable moral integrity. Always has been and probably always will be. One thing I'm curious about, you mentioned contacting her ex and learning some things but you didn't elaborate. Was it more or less just validation of all the craziness you've seen from her?

She is exactly those things AS, its just taken me a while to truly digest that horribly depressing fact. She is a predator, a parasite.
Its heartbreaking to realize. She couldn't even TRY To be happy for a few months of marriage. what a waste.
In regards to talking to EX, it was both a validation of what I suspected, as well as a VERY eye opening look into how crazy she could be. I learned things about her that blew my mind.
It was also a big realization to him, he had been blaming himself for the downfall of their relationship and thought he had hurt her terribly. he literally said "Wow. this all makes so much sense now, it really explains a lot i never understood about her crazy behavior that came out of nowhere. She was always so sweet and nice, then when things started going bad she got very volatile, spiteful and crazy. I feel a lot better now knowing it wasnt me"

Also I'm curious, you've mentioned still loving her, are you still hoping to recon some day?

I love the persona she created for me. Honestly, right now id say 95% no on Recon. There is just too much recompense for her to do, and i know she wont ever truly feel bad. i only say 5% of recon because there is a snowflakes chance in hell she may someday get IC and have some massive breakthrough, but ill expect that when I see a pig fly on a 90 degree January day in NH.
SHort answer: No. I deserve better. Her waste, her loss, and I think shell realize it someday.
Like ive said in a previous post
"I was the closest thing shes ever going to get to her picture perfect Disney marriage, everything after this will be tainted and fake. Our R is the ONLY One she has ever had that didnt start by cheating on someone else. I am her 1st and thus far only husband and the father of her only child. One day she may see what she burned to the ground, and it will be far too late."

As a side note after my D I briefly dated a woman that I later figured out was narcissistic, controlling, manipulative and probably bipolar. The problem was she was also beautiful, radiant and had an irresistible (at least to me) personality. I was really smitten with her. But, having just emerged from BD, S and D I was a little more street-wise and tough-skinned than before. When the warning signs started showing up I was not so blinded by her aura that I couldn't see them and eventually broke it off. I still think of her fondly but I am SO GLAD I got out of that relationship. Of course I wasn't glad at the time, it hurt to part ways. But looking back I can see the R more clearly and realize it was a house of cards built on a foundation of sand. I see yours the same way, I mean if recon is your goal then we of course are here to support you but I can't imagine you'll ever have a healthy, strong, satisfying M with this woman.

You are right. Again, barring some massive IC Breakthrough, she is who she is. I just never really MET my wife until the day after our wedding. She was who she is the entire time, It just took the weight of the wedding band to make her mask slip off.

I have a date im really excited about tomorrow night.
Wish me luck!

[OrangeK]

AS, great post.

It was. very valuable.

One truth I've learned with the problems in my MR:

You shouldn't try to find someone you are crazy about, you should find someone that is crazy about you.

I spent my younger years chasing women that I was so infatuated with. Finally caught one. I should have chosen from the myriad of women that were so in awe of me. For some reason that was always a turn off for me, and now I regret that.

The girl I dated before meeting WW could have been this but I didnt see it. She was crazy for me. I think the lack of a "chase" may have turned me off. I actually treated this girl really poorly, and recently messaged her to tell her as much. Shes engaged, i wished her well and said sorry for being a jerk.

[OrangeK]

It seems like there has been a big push in motivation with the change of the seasons. I feel like a lot of people on the board are making breakthroughs, and I count myself lucky to feel like one of those.

I still have miles and miles to go, but im getting there

[mtb1981]

It seems like there has been a big push in motivation with the change of the seasons. I feel like a lot of people on the board are making breakthroughs, and I count myself lucky to feel like one of those.

I still have miles and miles to go, but im getting there

You are definitely one of them. I feel the same about my sitch. Stay focused and take it one day at a time...

[OrangeK]

Nice Fridays like this i used to go and get steaks and wine and have it all ready for WW when she got out of work (at her new job she was already cheating on me through) so she would have a decadant meal after a hard week.
But i never paid enough attention to the relationship and took her for granted, and never reciprocated the relationship.
Sorry, but....HAHAHAHAHA

A few weeks ago this would have made me irate to think about.
Today, i just laugh at it and think "Hmmm there $60 i dont need to spend, i have a date tomorrow, ill spend it there instead :)"