[s]No[/s] affair, no feelings...is there hope? III

[44tries]

I assume you have access to see the balance in the banking account. How could she be "hurt" that you bought something for yourself? I think she just wants the control.

You: I didn't realize we were playing, "Mother, may I".

So, I think it was more about the specific item I bought because she also wanted it. I don't think she would be hurt just because I bought myself something in general, that would be kind of extreme. But we have always been a bit that way, in that if we are buying something new that's "fun" we usually include each other. Moreso her than me--she will never buy herself something without asking if I want something too. So basically she was saying 'hey you know I probably wanted a new one of those and I feel like I would have asked you so why didn't you ask me?'

(Excuse me while I choke). Did you say validation? The little hypocrite just told you how selfless and thoughtful of other people she was all the time. Poor little thing, nobody returns the favor. Man, can she twist things around! Guess that shows how she counts all the times you did stuff for her, huh?

This is good feedback. I really wasn't sure on the validation front because it is always emphasized so much I thought it was like "the minimum" thing that you should always be doing no matter what.

You will eventually learn your first and middle names are Nobody and Somebody. It had EVERYTHING to do with you! Truth is, it had everything to do with her control. That is what you have to see.

Wow, okay, you are really helping me see. I don't think I realized the true depth.

I am going to be sick. After all your hard work, you played right into her manipulating hands. Listen very carefully, b/c I kguys'll lot of betrayed guys are big to jump on the validation truck. Especially men with NGS. You have to be very careful validating the feelings of a WW. There are sevral reasons why, but for now I'll tell you it's how she interprets you validating her. She sees you being soft and able to be manipulated. In some cases she sees you as kissing up. Her feelings are wayward, which include resentment, disrespect, selfishness, and many other wrong things. Hearing her does not mean you agree with her, and she should not confuse the two, and neither should you. Most times, her feelings are directed at you......and that's when I have problem in validating a wayward W. Of course, like most people on the board, you don't actually report what you said to validate. You just say you validated. It could have been a uh-huh, for all I know. Just remember that she doesn't think, feel, or behave rationally......so how can she interpret your validation logically? Therefore, unless you are a naturally gifted validator, like Another Stander or Wonka (and very, very few are), I suggest you not seek awesome opportunities to validate a selfish, entitled, manipulative, cheating WW.......until you get your bearings a whole lot better than they are currently. It's not just you that I see this scenario played over & over again, where the H is so focused on a chance to validate, that he doesn't appear to recognize how she manipulated or disrespected him.

Again, I'm really glad to hear these thoughts on validation. It makes total sense, and I had reservations about how much I was supposed to be doing because it is one of the tricky things that seems like a good thing but also feels "weak"--or soft as you put it. I tried to be conscious about not agreeing with her, because I know that's not validation. I said things like "I can tell that bothered you" and "I see how you might feel that way". But I definitely understand how that could open me up to manipulation, due to the lack of rationality. I think I was still thinking the validation would be received as a "normal" person would receive it (and that the conversation was sincere), gotta keep remembering the depth of WW.

And there you have it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What? No, it's not mixed signals or loaves of bread at all. She intends to control you. She set out to manipulate you to wait on her hand & foot when she gets back home, and to join your workout group. Those are the only things you have stood your ground and she meant to undo them......and she did. You played right into her hands.

Well, I did not tell her anything about her being able to join the group so that discussion can still be had. Again, I am really trying to wrap my head around this level of manipulation. I knew she was WW and can't be trusted, but I didn't realize it was so...calculated. Admittedly I was just over in OrangeK's thread, but now reading this it feels like you are telling me she is crazy and has some scheme to weasel into all aspects of my life. I'm hearing you, maybe she does.

I am going to give some temporary anti-DB advice......in order to help you get stronger. Stop thinking about her feelings. B/c it scr@ws with your mind. Stop trying to validate her feelings, b/c it scr@ws with your mind. Once your balls have completely developed, then you can evaluate things and see if you can afford to consider her feelings! She has carried your b@lls in her purse so long that you can't interact like an alpha male. Currently, you just set yourself backwards, and will have to work twice as hard to set it straight again. This is not a WAW. She is wayward, through and through. She is among the most self-entitled, manipulative, & controlling type of women you could have for a W. Sometimes you might be able to see a little of it, but I don't think you are aware to the degree. Once you have big b@lls.....things will change and she will respect you, instead of controlling you. Don't worry, if others can change, you can too.

You are right exactly; it wasn't that I was unaware, I just didn't realize the degree. This really helps give me the direction I was looking for, because now I can abandon the feeling that I should be trying at all really to worry about building positive things. Right now is all about regaining my control and power in the R. I do not want these kinds of setbacks. I know I can change and I'm glad you think when things change, she'll respect me, but with the picture you've painted it's hard to imagine her ever being normal again

Just tell her you've thought it over and don't agree the things she had to say. The things she expressed doesn't have anything to do with other people not doing her favors, but everything to do with how she wants to control you (yes tell her this part, too). You don't agree with how she sees you checking with her before buying a few things for yourself. Neither will you be catering to her, b/c that is going to stop. And you don't want her joining your workout group. Don't explain, or give excuses. It is your observation that it hasn't brought much appreciation or respect from her. A man should not have to ask his W if he can do something. And, he should be able to have a few activities without her. You can tell her now, and let her get over it while she's on her trip, or tell her when she gets back. Either way, you are going to have to stand up to her when showdown comes.
You never said, so I assumed you never had that talk before she left on the trip.

I'm worried I may have given the impression that the discussion was bigger than it was. She didn't cause a huge fuss; it was fairly low key, like 'hey I'm just telling you how I feel'. But if you think I should bring it back up and say those things, I will. Joining the workout group is a separate issue that yes, will likely need to be addressed (you're correct we haven't talked about it). She has mentioned it in passing two times, and I have ignored both. If she seriously pursues it, I will tell her she can't join. No explanations, which I'm sure she will try to demand.

Thank you Sandi, this is what I needed.