My Scenario Pt.5 - Big D and Detaching the Monster

[OrangeK]

S3's school just called and let me know he is past due for a physical. there is still a balance at the pediatrician from before WW left me. She had been responsible for Diapers Daycare grocieries and medical when we lived together. I paid all the rent and utilities.

I typed out the following message

"i just heard from S3's school, he is past due for a physical.
There is still a balance left over from last year with the pediatricians office for when You/She was responsible for medical bills. We will need to relove that balance and then schedule a physical for him. How would you like to handle that?"

I dont know if i should send this message to WW, as i havent messaged her at all since last court date when TRO was changed to "allowe text/email/mail correspondence only pertaining to child care" or if i should just send the message to MIL.

Any advice on re-wording it before i send??

[OrangeK]

Or would it be better to just take care of it all myself and not even bring it up to WW and/or MIL?

[AnotherStander]

I dont know if i should send this message to WW, as i havent messaged her at all since last court date when TRO was changed to "allowe text/email/mail correspondence only pertaining to child care" or if i should just send the message to MIL.

I think it sounds fine, you might offer to take care of it yourself and ask her if that's OK or if she wants to handle it.

[sandi2]

At the same rate, once she new her EX was in a stable relationship, and her and I were dating, she would text him all the time (i didn't find out about this till after BD from her EX's current wife, who feels traumatized by my WW, WW wouldn't leave them alone and when WW's EX's Wife called her out on it WW totally FLIPPED OUT. Ive seen the screenshots from this conversation. It occured shortly after WW and I moved in together)

Before my first post, I may have read over your thread in a hurry and missed some of these things. I'll just say that I've learned a lot more about her in your more recent posts, b/c in the beginning you were painting a different picture of her......or maybe that's how I interpreted it, IDK.

But she does follow patterns, and keeping up with her EX's discreetly after the fact seems to be a big piece of it.
She didn't bother him until he was with another woman, like she has this sense of ownership that doesn't flare up until she KNOWS her EX has moved on.
She would try to make him jealous with details of our R. When he didn't care, she kept up her efforts. Even asked him to get coffee after WW and I were married. One thing her EX said to me that stands out (keep in mind WW is a petite, shy, cute little thing) "Wow, i cant believe she really is that messed up, it really explains why she got so volatile towards the end of our relationship"

I promise you that she would be worse if you had another woman. And trust me, she is keeping tabs on you. She has her ways. Her EX must have gotten very wise to her and figured good riddance. Yes, it sounds very messed up.......land I tried to give her the benefit of doubt by thinking there could be hidden issues in her past. But let me tell you, there are some women out there that are just plain evil. I don't mean she's a mass murderer or anything, but she's cunning, jealous, deceptive, manipulative, selfish, ruthless, possessive, liar, secretive, etc........which can lead to a person doing some wicked things to other people's lives. Look what she doing to her EX and his relationship.........all the time you were thinking you were in a fantastic R with her! You were still posting about the great R before you put a ring on her finger. If she was doing those things with her EX, then you were not in a great R.......you were in a deceptive R. Big difference! Look what she did to your MR. She doesn't sound like a good person, to me. Is there something mentally wrong with her? IDK, but there doesn't have to be anything particularly wrong. Some people are just deceitful. Maybe you did not see a malicious side. Loved ones often try to believe something makes them behave the way they do........but it's not always the case.

She can't keep female friends, for a reason! Women can read other women much quicker than a man can read her. Same is true about men seeing through another man. We can always fool the opposite sex easier, and if the woman is pretty and sexy.......well, need I say anymore? She was having sex with you only two hours into your first date! You said everything went so fast it should have been a red flag. Maybe you saw yourself as getting lucky, IDK, but you should have been asking what kind of morals this girl had. How long had she been broken up with her EX, when she was looking at you and announcing that she was soooo in love with you? You need to see past her physical attractive body and look at the path of destruction she leaves behind her. The person you say you loved was not real. It was all a frabication. That is who she wanted you to see. I have known people like her. They are very good at deception.........especially with the opposite sex.

So im not sure what to expect, her to forget about me and move on when her drama is focused on OM#1 and the eventual OM#2, or if she will repeat her beahviors from before with the hoovering and fake niceities.

I don't remember reading about her hovering and fake niceties.

But anyway, to answer the rest of that quote...... she was in a relationship with you while she constantly contacted her EX, without you being any the wiser. So, she can bounce from man to man and cause you misery, too. Some girls thrive on drama. If you are smart, you will do everything in your power to never give her a chance to even speak to you. Count it a blessing that the MIL is the go between in child swap. If your W felt ownership about an EX BF, just imagine an EX H. If she feels threatened by another woman in your life, there is any number of antics to expect from her. For example, she could show up at one of your old hangouts and be all over some other guy, just to make you jealous.

I'm just curious. You said when the BF's woman confronted your W that she flipped out. How do you mean? Was she flipping out with the woman.......or to you?

When you say she may "need" something from me, besides money, which i think she knows full well i wouldnt give her, what else could she try to get from me?

It could be for any number of emotional things for herself. Emotional satisfaction by seeing you pining away for her, or seeing you get jealous. Validation to build her self esteem. Use you for a shoulder to cry on when she's feeling low. Use you for a booty call.......to assure herself she's still got what it takes to wrap you around her finger. Just use you for her kicks. Some women use their LBH to go with him on his nice vacation "as a family", then dump him as soon as they get back home. They use his credit cards or charge accounts, put bills in his name, even use his good name/reputation as a reference in advancing to get whatever. They use him to keep the kid whenever the grandparents aren't available, or long term if she wants to leave for days or weeks on a so-called business trip. It's much cheaper than paying a babysitter. They use the LBH for a plumber, computer tech, electrician, carpenter, errand boy, automobile repairman, etc.......all the while playing the damsel in distress. If you are smart, you'll tell her to look in the yellow pages.

If not straightforward, what are some subtle temp checks to look out for?

Oh wow.......it's endless. She may use some excuse to contact you. She may just text you out of the blue, as if nothing's happened. For instance, if you have a birthday, she may text happy bithday.......to see if you respond, and how. I kind of feel she will make a point of seeing you somewhere "accidently", just to see how you react at seeing her for the first time. How you respond will determine how she makes her next move. She may give you a timid smile (fake, by the way)....... or if at a distance, she may just use her eyes to exchange looks with you, while she's with someone else, or doing something to preoccupy herself. She can probably read your body language. She may use any numer of her feminine approaches (if she chooses to approach you at that time). One thing to remember is that you won't see anger or anything of that sort, when she's feeling you out to gage your attachment. She will show you what you want to see in her (except true remorse). I think she will play the part that works well for her.........which is sexual. Whether or not she approaches you the first time you see her out somewhere, I think she'll follow up pretty soon afterwards with a phone contact.

Here's a scenario for you. Let's say she contacts you to see if S3 left something at your place, b/c he really needs/wants it. If it's not there, she may make some small chit-chat, just to determine how friendly you sound. Let's pretend the item is there, and you volunteer to take it over.......and like most LBH's, you tell us you aren't doing it for her, it's for the kid. Anyway, you get there and she's looking so pretty, and she almost acts shy. She is so sweet and appreciative. She makes a little small talk, then one thing leads to another and you think she could be "reaching out" to you. Now, it could end there with you saying good night and going home to wait for the next contact. However, considering this girl's track record, I think she'll go for it.

She's not going to hit you with a R talk right off the bat. She is going to hit you sexually.......or she might play on your affection for the child. If it's the latter, she'll say something about doing such & such with S3.......b/c he talks about wanting mommy & daddy with him. IMHO, she's going to play on sex appeal, and your soft heart for what all this is doing to S3. Always remember that a WW is after what benefits her.....nobody else.

I don't think she'll do it the first contact, but pretty soon afterwards, she may lead you into something like a mini-R talk.....and acting kind of hurt/sad (as if she's a victim) and say things like how confused she felt (or feels)......and you'll be saying all the wrong things b/c the talk didn't happen like you expected. You were looking for a straight forward adult conversation......not beating around the bush approach. M You'll catch yourself trying to make her feel better (validating attempts) about the whole situation, or you'll sound like a love-sick wuss telling her you never wanted any of this and how you still want the M to work, yada, yada. You know what I read the most from LBH's in this type of situation? "She caught me off guard". Well, keep your darn guard up! Don't trust a WW!

When she temp checks by leading into a R talk, she'll act kind of all sweet & sad.......you know? She plays on his heart strings, and stirs the affectionate feelings he still holds for her. She may say something about how she was afraid to call him b/c he must really hate her, yada, yada,........ playing the sad, shy, confused victim role.....and all his resolve goes down the toilet b/c she just looks so sweet & pretty. She may even give him some b.s. about being nice to each other (something or the sake of their child, or something along those lines. If he agrees, it opens the door for her to really use his availability to her own advantage.

There have been stories on the board about WW's showing up at the H's place, for one excuse or the other. One case I will never forget, the WW came by the H's place late at night, and it was raining hard (nice touch) and she crying and saying how she had driven around for hours asking herself what she had done.....and how she felt so confused....(boo-hoo b.s.). She literally fell in the H's arms (dramatic effect) and he thought she was "reaching out". He took the bait, hook, line & sinker. They had sex (of course), which told her he failed the temp check and he was still attached. So, the next morning, she was back to being her ice cold, wayward self again, and left. We tried to warn him, but he did not listen.

She may call you some night asking if you will show her how to use her new phone, or computer program, etc. Could you please go over there, or could she come by? Oh, the stories of how unsuspecting LBH's would be tempted by their sexy WW! He is so blindsided by her!

I understand if this is not a topic you want to elaborate on in a public forum, anonymous though it may be.

No, I don't mind, but you aren't giving me anything to go on. You just said you have suspicions, but you don't say what they are. I mean, I have tried to answer any direct questions you've asked me, but you have ignored many of my questions. So, until you can be more open with what you are trying to say here about what you suspect, I feel it is useless for me to guess. Do you know what I mean? ((hugs))

[OrangeK]

OK AS.
I am typing it out to her now.

I will admit i currently have huge anxiety just typing a text to her.

We havent spoken in months. this is nerve racking...wish me luck.

Here is the message i sent
"The Daycare called and said S3 needs an annual physical. There is still a remaining balance of $66 from 2017 at the pediatricians office that needs to be taken care of before we can schedule a new appointment. How would you like to handle this matter?"

[OrangeK]

Sandi, I am going to digest this whole response and reply thoroughly later from home. In the mean time i have one question.

No, I don't mind, but you aren't giving me anything to go on. You just said you have suspicions, but you don't say what they are. I mean, I have tried to answer any direct questions you've asked me, but you have ignored many of my questions. So, until you can be more open with what you are trying to say here about what you suspect, I feel it is useless for me to guess. Do you know what I mean? ((hugs))

What questions did i ignore? if i did it wasn't intentional, your reply's are the ones i look forward to most, your input is invaluable.
Which ones? ill gladly answer them.

I've been trying to be delicate but i guess that makes for poor communication.

FIL was charged, and pleaded down a charge of Fel. Sexual Assault on Minor. His 2nd Daughter from his 2nd marriage. WW's half sister, 15 years her junior. (WW' was 18 and Half Sister was 4 when this all occurred)
DISCLAIMER - i was told from the get go that FIL's 2nd wife was "CRAZY" and "accused him of things he never did"
Thats all the info i ever got from WW about this.
I suspect FIL may have done this to WW as well at that age, the exact age she was when MIL VERY ABRUPTLY left FIL while he was away on business.
Seems like she discovered something and bailed as quick as possible.
It would explain the root of her issues for sure.....So Sad if its true.

[OrangeK]

Before my first post, I may have read over your thread in a hurry and missed some of these things. I'll just say that I've learned a lot more about her in your more recent posts, b/c in the beginning you were painting a different picture of her......or maybe that's how I interpreted it, IDK.

What picture did you get at first Vs. Now. Sorry, i have always aimed to fully explain her. Anything i can add to elaborate i will.

I promise you that she would be worse if you had another woman. And trust me, she is keeping tabs on you. She has her ways. Her EX must have gotten very wise to her and figured good riddance. Yes, it sounds very messed up.......land I tried to give her the benefit of doubt by thinking there could be hidden issues in her past. But let me tell you, there are some women out there that are just plain evil. I don't mean she's a mass murderer or anything, but she's cunning, jealous, deceptive, manipulative, selfish, ruthless, possessive, liar, secretive, etc........which can lead to a person doing some wicked things to other people's lives. Look what she doing to her EX and his relationship.........all the time you were thinking you were in a fantastic R with her! You were still posting about the great R before you put a ring on her finger. If she was doing those things with her EX, then you were not in a great R.......you were in a deceptive R. Big difference! Look what she did to your MR. She doesn't sound like a good person, to me. Is there something mentally wrong with her? IDK, but there doesn't have to be anything particularly wrong. Some people are just deceitful. Maybe you did not see a malicious side. Loved ones often try to believe something makes them behave the way they do........but it's not always the case.

She can't keep female friends, for a reason! Women can read other women much quicker than a man can read her. Same is true about men seeing through another man. We can always fool the opposite sex easier, and if the woman is pretty and sexy.......well, need I say anymore? She was having sex with you only two hours into your first date! You said everything went so fast it should have been a red flag. Maybe you saw yourself as getting lucky, IDK, but you should have been asking what kind of morals this girl had. How long had she been broken up with her EX, when she was looking at you and announcing that she was soooo in love with you? You need to see past her physical attractive body and look at the path of destruction she leaves behind her. The person you say you loved was not real. It was all a fabrication. That is who she wanted you to see. I have known people like her. They are very good at deception.........especially with the opposite sex.

It has been the biggest struggle to defeat the cognitive dissonance. For so long i literally viewed her in my head as 2 different people.
these points are all totally valid. She is who she is, and i just didnt learn until after we married. Shame, and a waste, but it is what it is.

I don't remember reading about her hovering and fake niceties.

Niceties - She did these all before Xmas, like brining me soup to work when i said i missed her cooking. Kissed me passionately (for the last time ever) and said "Orange, I REALLY do love you, im just lost right now"

As far as hoovering, she hasn't done that yet, but based on her behavior with her EX. I expect it. Probably once im dating someone.

I'm just curious. You said when the BF's woman confronted your W that she flipped out. How do you mean? Was she flipping out with the woman.......or to you?

Flipped out at her, for calling her out for contacting her EX (this girls BF / Husband) Prior to that WW had reached out to this woman to "try and be friends", WW had found out just before this they would be having a child and was all sweet and fake "EX and i have history but were close friends and i want to be friends with you, im so happy you guys are having a baby thats so cute! ill buy him clothes!"
Then WW's EX's GF called her out a few weeks later and basically said "I dont think we can be friends, you arent respecting our boundaries as a new couple, please leave us alone to focus on our child and family"
This is when WW flipped out. Got VERY defensive, angry and this is when she said "I happen to be falling madly in love with another man, and EX knows about it!" she was referring to me, 6 days before she ever started talking to me.

It could be for any number of emotional things for herself. Emotional satisfaction by seeing you pining away for her, or seeing you get jealous. Validation to build her self esteem. Use you for a shoulder to cry on when she's feeling low. Use you for a booty call.......to assure herself she's still got what it takes to wrap you around her finger. Just use you for her kicks. Some women use their LBH to go with him on his nice vacation "as a family", then dump him as soon as they get back home. They use his credit cards or charge accounts, put bills in his name, even use his good name/reputation as a reference in advancing to get whatever. They use him to keep the kid whenever the grandparents aren't available, or long term if she wants to leave for days or weeks on a so-called business trip. It's much cheaper than paying a babysitter. They use the LBH for a plumber, computer tech, electrician, carpenter, errand boy, automobile repairman, etc.......all the while playing the damsel in distress. If you are smart, you'll tell her to look in the yellow pages.

Just had to text her about S3 for the first time in 3 months.
My guard is up, ill be looking out for any tricks or ploys. thanks for all the great info to look out for!!!

Oh wow.......it's endless. She may use some excuse to contact you. She may just text you out of the blue, as if nothing's happened. For instance, if you have a birthday, she may text happy bithday.......to see if you respond, and how. I kind of feel she will make a point of seeing you somewhere "accidently", just to see how you react at seeing her for the first time. How you respond will determine how she makes her next move. She may give you a timid smile (fake, by the way)....... or if at a distance, she may just use her eyes to exchange looks with you, while she's with someone else, or doing something to preoccupy herself. She can probably read your body language. She may use any numer of her feminine approaches (if she chooses to approach you at that time). One thing to remember is that you won't see anger or anything of that sort, when she's feeling you out to gage your attachment. She will show you what you want to see in her (except true remorse). I think she will play the part that works well for her.........which is sexual. Whether or not she approaches you the first time you see her out somewhere, I think she'll follow up pretty soon afterwards with a phone contact.

Here's a scenario for you. Let's say she contacts you to see if S3 left something at your place, b/c he really needs/wants it. If it's not there, she may make some small chit-chat, just to determine how friendly you sound. Let's pretend the item is there, and you volunteer to take it over.......and like most LBH's, you tell us you aren't doing it for her, it's for the kid. Anyway, you get there and she's looking so pretty, and she almost acts shy. She is so sweet and appreciative. She makes a little small talk, then one thing leads to another and you think she could be "reaching out" to you. Now, it could end there with you saying good night and going home to wait for the next contact. However, considering this girl's track record, I think she'll go for it.

She's not going to hit you with a R talk right off the bat. She is going to hit you sexually.......or she might play on your affection for the child. If it's the latter, she'll say something about doing such & such with S3.......b/c he talks about wanting mommy & daddy with him. IMHO, she's going to play on sex appeal, and your soft heart for what all this is doing to S3. Always remember that a WW is after what benefits her.....nobody else.

I don't think she'll do it the first contact, but pretty soon afterwards, she may lead you into something like a mini-R talk.....and acting kind of hurt/sad (as if she's a victim) and say things like how confused she felt (or feels)......and you'll be saying all the wrong things b/c the talk didn't happen like you expected. You were looking for a straight forward adult conversation......not beating around the bush approach. M You'll catch yourself trying to make her feel better (validating attempts) about the whole situation, or you'll sound like a love-sick wuss telling her you never wanted any of this and how you still want the M to work, yada, yada. You know what I read the most from LBH's in this type of situation? "She caught me off guard". Well, keep your darn guard up! Don't trust a WW!

When she temp checks by leading into a R talk, she'll act kind of all sweet & sad.......you know? She plays on his heart strings, and stirs the affectionate feelings he still holds for her. She may say something about how she was afraid to call him b/c he must really hate her, yada, yada,........ playing the sad, shy, confused victim role.....and all his resolve goes down the toilet b/c she just looks so sweet & pretty. She may even give him some b.s. about being nice to each other (something or the sake of their child, or something along those lines. If he agrees, it opens the door for her to really use his availability to her own advantage.

There have been stories on the board about WW's showing up at the H's place, for one excuse or the other. One case I will never forget, the WW came by the H's place late at night, and it was raining hard (nice touch) and she crying and saying how she had driven around for hours asking herself what she had done.....and how she felt so confused....(boo-hoo b.s.). She literally fell in the H's arms (dramatic effect) and he thought she was "reaching out". He took the bait, hook, line & sinker. They had sex (of course), which told her he failed the temp check and he was still attached. So, the next morning, she was back to being her ice cold, wayward self again, and left. We tried to warn him, but he did not listen.

She may call you some night asking if you will show her how to use her new phone, or computer program, etc. Could you please go over there, or could she come by? Oh, the stories of how unsuspecting LBH's would be tempted by their sexy WW! He is so blindsided by her!

Again, SOOO MUCH GREAT INFO HERE. Tag this for newbies!!!
I will be looking for all of this.
My Birthday - Mid July
I will not be saying anything about Mothers Day.
2nd Anniversary - Mid Sept.
I will let you know if any of the stuff you describe above happens or begins to happen.

[OrangeK]

Hasn't answered. Not surprised, i probably wont hear from her, im gonna give her till monday to reply then im just gonna take care of it myself, document it to take note in case i need it for Court down the road?

[OrangeK]

Disreagard last. Got my reply

WW: "I didnt realize we still had a balance. I know you said you would take care of that back before you moved out of our apartment. His physical will need to be paid for at the time of the visit so we'll need to take care of the balance first.Why dont we just split everything 50/50 and just get it taken care of?"

Me: "K. You want to make the appointment or shall I?"

WW: "i probably have more availability to get him in during office hours, i can take him if you want"

Me: "K, Have them invoice me the half you don't pay"

WW: "Ok"

[OrangeK]

More

Me: Have them invoice me for the half you dont pay"

WW: "K"

WW: "Or ill just pay it all, you can give my mom your half to pay me back. that will be quicker."

Me: "No, Ill pay the office directly. That way there's a paper-trail"

WW:"Fine"
WW:"Whatever"

Me:"Ok Thanks"

WW:"We can do that for the $66, but they wont invoice for the actual visit That will have to be paid for at the time of visit"

Me:"If thats the case how did we end up with a past due balance in the first place?"

WW:"Because they allowed it for the vaccinations, which was a seperate fee from the actual wellness checkup cost"

Me:"Ok well then ill pay back 50% when i get a paid invoice, Ill write a check that way its a track able payment"

WW:" But that was only because i was given wrong information boefore his last visit and was told they could invoice me, when they normally dont do that"

Me: "Just pay it all if youd like and send me the paid invoice then, ill pay back half"

WW: "Do whatever you'd like"

Me:" Its not a matter of doing what i would like, its the official way to do it so everything is tracked so all of our finanaces can be presented in court. Obviously given the circumstances cash transactions wont suffice. I will look forward to getting the invoice in the mail or handed off to me by your mother, have a good day, goodbye"

WW:" Bye"





Umm call me crazy. But did i just DB ok? This has literally been my first opportunity to do so.
Im very jittery and nervous right now from this interaction. Ive been living in fear of talking to her for months now.
doing so got me all worked up!

I feel like i did pretty good. As tempted as i was, i brought up nothing besides official childcare business. I was pleasant, where she was curt and short.

Im looking forward to any advice, constructive criticism, or ways i could have worded that better.

I feel strong! i thought doing that would be so much harder than it was.