My Scenario Pt.5 - Big D and Detaching the Monster

[SteveLW]

Be careful with #3. You are not in a place right now to offer much to someone else. It wouldn't be fair to them. I think you know that, but it is worth hearing a reminder. Lots of times we think that getting over someone will be easier with someone else. Unfortunately, there isn't much hope for the new person unless we are truly over the first person.

OK, remember, don't stifle your emotions. Let them flow. We guys sometimes try to be tough and not show it. Our emotions can cause us a lot of harm if we ignore them. Let yourself feel the pain and the loss. It is the best way to move forward.

[NicoleR]

OrangeK, all I can say is it's exhausting. There's so much to deal with and think about and it's overwhelming. Wish we could find a way to fast forward to a better life but I guess this is all necessary to move forward.

[OrangeK]

Be careful with #3. You are not in a place right now to offer much to someone else. It wouldn't be fair to them. I think you know that, but it is worth hearing a reminder. Lots of times we think that getting over someone will be easier with someone else. Unfortunately, there isn't much hope for the new person unless we are truly over the first person.

I see the logic here but i think after as long as its been since separation, i need to try. I think the excitement of having someone new to share things with, talk to, and be close to would really help me realize my own worth, ive been trapped feeling like shes the only one who will ever love me (and she never really did).

Ive been reading up on Makia's "Self discovery" kind of material and i think that is a path i need to walk.

She moved on 8 months before i knew anything was even wrong, i deserve to get out there and test the waters, i know im a great guy and a great catch. Im not diving into anything serious anytime soon, but I think its the right time to really start at least dating.

[OrangeK]

Setting up a date as i type and it feels good.

[sandi2]

I dont think expecting an explination to the destruction of my entire life is particularaly controlling, but to gain closure so i CAN move on.

Wanting answers is not control. I suspect you are in too much pain at the moment to see it in yourself. Frankly, I have to admit that I seldom use the "C" word (control) b/c I despise when women accuse their H's for it, when in fact, it is her tactic to control him! But like I said, it is difficult to see in ourselves.

A mature adult would have known this and been kind enough to have an adult conversation about not being happy or becoming unhappy in the M

This is expecting a lot from a cheater. Little maturity or kindness is seen in cases of betrayal and abandonment. You are suffering from a double whammy. There is quite a bit of free information on line about healing from betrayal and abandonment. I get a little frustrated, however, b/c many writers give scenarios where both spouses are willing to sit down and have a calm, mature, discussion about their feelings, etc. In reality, how many times does this really happen during the crisis period? But anyway.......I saw some books that appeared to offer more meat on the subject. You might search Ted Talks. Several people on the board finds them to be enlightening.

I have every right to be angry.

Hang on, I never said you didn't have the right to be angry. You asked ME for my perspective as a WW about sending your letter. I'm just trying to give you that perspective. She would be nieve to believe you wouldn't be upset. Even knowing that......it still would not set well with her to read you expressing it. Look, you will not understand her mindset b/c it is not logical......and that's what you can't accept.

Im not going to send the letter as she knows all of this ready, the tone of the letter i was interested in conveying to her, which she has never heard from me is more the boundary setting tone.
"im moving on, without you, and you seem to be moving on without me. I am not going to be here to do favors, pay for anything or offer any modicum of support so long as OM is in any way shape or form in your and S3's lives. We were building something amazing, and if you ever want that to come to fruition you have a lot of recompense to perform, but i am willing to walk that road with you if you are willing to take the steps necessary to show you know you made huge mistakes and are taking steps to repair the damage done to our son, myself and our families and friends. I vowed to stand beside you forever and support you forever, which i will uphold, if you return to me from the darkness"

But you aren't moving on! You wanted to use the letter as a tool to shock her.

I'm saying that a WW would not respond favorably to your statements above........no matter how much right you have to feel the way you do. I think she would see it sounding a little preachy, and throwing guilt & blame at her. I'm not saying you are wrong. I am saying these words don't produce the effect you want from a WW before she even contacts you. To a WW, the H looks arrogant or assuming to start telling her what he would be willing to do if she did such & such......no matter what tone he may try to use. Don't issue boundaries after she's abandoned you.......and before she's even made an effort to contact you. You are dealing with your mindset, which is nothing like hers.

This is the same route the majority of LBH's want to take. They think they can give a speech, have a talk, send a letter that embodies some words that will stop her dead in her tracks, slap her forehead and think, "OMG, what am I doing"........and it's not going to happen.

She was SO excited to have a baby, get married, talk about growing old and all of that. She was so invested in our R, then as soon as the ring was on. BAM she did a full 180. It just doesnt freakin' compute. Its not like she had years of unhappiness in M to grow bitter and contemptuous. This is what blows my mind the most

There are a lot of things about your W that does not compute for me. With many waywards, comes other baggage. Emotional problems tied to their past and/or mental health issues that add to the problem of waywardness......or vice-versa. Too much psychology gets involved. I try to stick with what little I know........which is just plain old waywardness. That's complicated enough!

This one sentence held my finger back from the trigger of sending the letter today Sandi. After re reading some WW stuff, you are right. If i ever hope to hear those answers, she will need to want to give them to me herself, without any form of a prompt from me.
I think this will be how she "Hoovers"
by trying to start this conversation, and explain why she did what she did (it will be lies at first, if not forever)
She will try to reopen my wounds and climb in when her dark and twisty world gets too cold.

I'm glad you did not send it. As long as it stays on your computer, there's a chance you will accidentally hit the send key. Yep! It's happened.

[OrangeK]

Hang on, I never said you didn't have the right to be angry. You asked ME for my perspective as a WW about sending your letter. I'm just trying to give you that perspective. She would be nieve to believe you wouldn't be upset. Even knowing that......it still would not set well with her to read you expressing it. Look, you will not understand her mindset b/c it is not logical......and that's what you can't accept.

I do accept its illogical. Where its been about a year since affair, 8 months since BD / Affair exposure, and 3 months of TRO NC, do you think the reality will begin to settle in soon and cause her some realization (i have no hopes or expectations of R from this realization) or do you think it more likley she is just going to stick to her guns and continue to try and justify this to others?
What i wonder is whats going to occur when the dust settles and people stop caring about it in her life, and her R with OM will just get boring again, like every other R she has ran away from.

But you aren't moving on! You wanted to use the letter as a tool to shock her.

I just want some damn accountability, i have accepted this isnt going to happen anytime soon likely not ever, due to any external reason, including me or anything i say. IF (and its a huge if) she ever talks to me about this again, it will be because she chose to bring it up.

I'm saying that a WW would not respond favorably to your statements above........no matter how much right you have to feel the way you do. I think she would see it sounding a little preachy, and throwing guilt & blame at her. I'm not saying you are wrong. I am saying these words don't produce the effect you want from a WW before she even contacts you. To a WW, the H looks arrogant or assuming to start telling her what he would be willing to do if she did such & such......no matter what tone he may try to use. Don't issue boundaries after she's abandoned you.......and before she's even made an effort to contact you. You are dealing with your mindset, which is nothing like hers.

Great point about being in between abandonment and if/when she makes an effort to contact me.
I spent last night pouring over the "Instructions for LBH" and your rules.
getting back on track with that. Glad i didnt pursue, or even try to talk to MIL.

When dealing with MIL, should i be "everyday plesant" with the "hi how are you?" or just be greystone with MIL, only answer questions and so on?

This is the same route the majority of LBH's want to take. They think they can give a speech, have a talk, send a letter that embodies some words that will stop her dead in her tracks, slap her forehead and think, "OMG, what am I doing"........and it's not going to happen.

No it isn't, you are right about that. A loss on her part or loneliness is the only thing that would cause that for her. Nothing i can prompt or initiate.

There are a lot of things about your W that does not compute for me. With many waywards, comes other baggage. Emotional problems tied to their past and/or mental health issues that add to the problem of waywardness......or vice-versa. Too much psychology gets involved. I try to stick with what little I know........which is just plain old waywardness. That's complicated enough!

What specifically about my WW doesnt compute? i can possibly shed some further light on her for you.
Did you see my more recent post where i Mention you and Vanilla in regards to her possibly mental issues and their possible cause?

I'm glad you did not send it. As long as it stays on your computer, there's a chance you will accidentally hit the send key. Yep! It's happened.

I have it on my computer, but i deleted the email draft. Buried it deep in my comp so its there if i need it but cant be sent by accident.
I also have a copy i printed and put in my nightstand.
I did the same with a letter i wrote months ago, that earlier letter (also have a digital copy squirreled away) is a vicious rant of anger, vulgarity and accusation. that one will likely never see the light of day again.

[OrangeK]

I looked into it and I COULD file a petition to request to amend the TRO or dismiss it. I know it wouldn't get dismissed, but i have considered petitioning to see if they can amend it to allow child drop offs between WW and I, so MIL can go back to her life without having to pick up her daughters responsibilities
(clearly that's MY Fault because i caused the TRO, but WW asked for it to be extended a year. *Please note my sarcasm here*)

Do you think this would appear controlling or pursuing?
I dont plan on using these meetings if petition was granted to do anything other than pickup or drop off my son. No ulterior motive here.

[SteveLW]

I looked into it and I COULD file a petition to request to amend the TRO or dismiss it. I know it wouldn't get dismissed, but i have considered petitioning to see if they can amend it to allow child drop offs between WW and I, so MIL can go back to her life without having to pick up her daughters responsibilities
(clearly that's MY Fault because i caused the TRO, but WW asked for it to be extended a year. *Please note my sarcasm here*)

Do you think this would appear controlling or pursuing?
I dont plan on using these meetings if petition was granted to do anything other than pickup or drop off my son. No ulterior motive here.

What does this accomplish? Are you intimidated by the MiL? I don't understand why it matters who you drop off and pick up your son from UNLESS you are just wanting to used pickup and dropoff to see your W. If I see that, then your W will see it that way.

I would fight the TRO on principle, not for any specific outcome. TROs are nasty on your record, and an active one limits you in other ways legally. So yes, file the petition but don't ask for a specific outcome. Especially the one you were considering, it would be seen right through.

[OrangeK]

What does this accomplish? Are you intimidated by the MiL? I don't understand why it matters who you drop off and pick up your son from UNLESS you are just wanting to used pickup and drop-off to see your W. If I see that, then your W will see it that way.

What does it accomplish? it accomplishes WW needing to actually care for her child instead of pawning it off on MIL.
Does MIL intimidate me? No, she is timid and fake, and its not her responsibility to do all of the driving because WW had to extend the BS TRO for a full year. My motivation here is simply to get her to do her job as a parent.
I can see why you'd say it would look like i was just doing it to see WW. Which is why i asked for opinions here before moving forward with it.

I would fight the TRO on principle, not for any specific outcome. TROs are nasty on your record, and an active one limits you in other ways legally. So yes, file the petition but don't ask for a specific outcome. Especially the one you were considering, it would be seen right through.

Another reason is i dont want to go through D with that black eye. It also bars us from participating in Mediation.
I still have a pending request to put D on hold for these reasons.

[OrangeK]

Filled out form to petition against the RO, didn't ask for it to be removed, just amend to allow pickups and drop offs, i even specified "no other discussions to take place at these meetings"

Im gonna sit on it for a day or two and sleep on it.