My Scenario Pt.5 - Big D and Detaching the Monster

[TBSakaJ9]

FWIW - I don't think you are weak, this is tough stuff. My W left our home 3 weeks after BD and I get to my 2 young girls every other week and am now D'd. Splitting up 1/2 our assets and paying child support.

I cried my eyes out, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, thought about her all the time, wondered what she was doing constantly...it was even worse when it was my week to have my girls. Spent hours on this site reading over old posts....essentially doing anything I could to make myself feel better. I couldn't even mow my yard without crying. Then it started to get better......

If posting makes you feel better then post....who gives a $hit what anyone thinks about it.

[OrangeK]

What would your reaction be to her, "OMG, what have I done" moment? Based on the stories from the board, very few LBH's get to witness that moment. I mean, at some point in time you may be able to tell she has changed, but she may never share that precise moment and what it took to bring her to her senses. She may not have the experience. As I have said previously, your W seems to be following a behavior pattern.

I agree she follows a pattern, I just don't have any clue as to how aware of it she is. I dont want her to continue to destroy her life over and over again, because A.) there is some tiny iota of the woman i love in there somewhere, and I dont want to see the woman I love(d?) continue to hurt herself and others around her. B.) I dont want this repeating cycle to continue to harm my son, im already worried he is going to be hurt when OM exits the picture, because she introduced S3 to OM WAY to early on.

To answer your question: What would i do with the "OMG what have i done" response? - I would sit and listen, let her say her piece, and listen to what issues she talks about regarding herself, me and our relationship. I would then explain the hurt and pain she has put me through, to try and have her understand what wearing my shoes feels like. I know this will never happen and explaining this to her wouldn't do any good to get her to understand. IF she is ever to understand truly what she has done to me, she needs to reach that understanding herself.

I have known IRL a few women who followed a similar pattern and went from man to man. On the outside looking on, I could not see evidence that they learned their wayward/rebellious behavior didn't work well for them. They continued repeating the same pattern.

I can only assume it will be a continued pattern. The only basis I have to go off of there is MIL. WW and MIL are very very similar people. Which is interesting because MIL Drives me insane, i see all the same negative qualities in them both, but they are amplified for me with MIL because she isnt WW. MIL is on Husband #3 currently, and they have been married about 10 years. they are MISRABLE. Her 2nd marraige was a bit longer than her first, but i know she was cheating on H2 when she met current H3. Apples, trees, and the distance they fall from them and all that.
Regarding FIL.
MIL left FIL when WW was 4, and it was VERY abrupt. FIL went away on business, and returned to an empty house and divorce papers. There may have been dark, dark reasons for this, which i cannot confirm but i suspect some very inappropriate actions may have taken place. FIL & WW are barred from seeing FIL's 2nd daughter, his 2nd divorce was NASTY, lots of legal stuff, potential harm to FIL's 2nd daughter (which is what makes me VERY Suspect of FIL&MIL's divorce, as well as whatever may have happened to WW to make her behave this way). Ive always been very confused why if WW was 19 when FIL's 2nd divorce took place, why she cant see her half sister, even still to this day.
If trauma this bad ACTUALLY took place in WW's early life (age 4?) then it would certainly explain a lot. A LOT.

Sandi/Vanilla,
something tells me this bit of info will shed some light. Ive danced around this topic on my thread, afraid to really bring it to light. I trust you can read between the lines here........</3
I will elaborate on this if need be.

At this point, I really believe that you need to cut ties (except for S3) and move forward in building a new life. Mourn the loss of that girl you fell in love with, and accept that she is gone. If someday your W wants to reconcile, I really don't think you will see the same girl you saw before M.

I know this is what i need to do. Accomplishing it is another thing entirely.
What you say about her becoming a different person. I agree, and i hope she does.
Looking back there is so much she said between Oct-Feb that should have raised red flags as to her lies and manipulations that i didnt pick up on then.
She was SO excited to have a baby, get married, talk about growing old and all of that. She was so invested in our R, then as soon as the ring was on. BAM she did a full 180. It just doesnt freakin' compute. Its not like she had years of unhappiness in M to grow bitter and contemptuous. This is what blows my mind the most

Here is how I see you, and maybe it's b/c I used to be a lot the same way. You referred to it as determination, but I see you not letting go of the desire to control. This is driving you nuts b/c you have no control over her. When you finally turn lose of trying to control the situation, then your thoughts will calm down and you will be able to move forward. You will know when you truely let go, b/c your body will feel it. As long as you are trying to rationalize and come up with all sorts of thoughts & feelings you think she has......it is a form of you wanting control her. You feed that desire by thinking of all these ways she must be feeling, etc. Can you see what I am saying? Listen, I know how difficult it is to recognize it in ourselves. We can label it as something else, but the bottom line is us wanting & trying to find some measure of control.

Control is an issue I have been struggling with.
I tend to label it as "injustice" or "lack of closure"
Alas, i still struggle to call it control either.
I dont think expecting an explination to the destruction of my entire life is particularaly controlling, but to gain closure so i CAN move on. A mature adult would have known this and been kind enough to have an adult conversation about not being happy or becoming unhappy in the M (again, i dont think 6 months was a whole lot of time to decide she was truly unhappy, and if it was longer than that Why TF did she marry me to begin with? This is how i know she switched her feelings like a lightswitch as soon as we were married (i still am almost certain she cheated on me 3 weeks after our wedding, no proof though) OR she knew what was going to happen well before we were married, this is the case i believe.)

I will be very frank about your letter. Although I believe you were trying to sound as if you take your share of responsibility for the breakdown......as a WW, I think she'll see it more like a con job. You try to sound one way.....but your anger surfaces. And like when you refer to S3, in every place you shout out "OUR SON". Clearly you are trying to relate a message by writing this in all caps each time, but I think it will have an opposite affect on her from what you wanted when writing OUR SON throughout the letter. It shows anger, blame and guilting. Although you may be justified in your feelings, I don't think the tone in the letter will have the results you intended. In fact, the letter could work in preventing her from ever giving you the answers you seek.

Of course my anger surfaces, I am angry. She should know and expect that, after the degree of which she hurt and deceived me. I'm not going to sit here and tell you i could sit down and explain all of my feelings and hurts to WW as calm as a Hindu Cow. It wouldn't happen. I have every right to be angry.
When i capitalize OUR SON, it is because when SHE decided to get pregnant without my consent, she chose for us to enter a lifelong bond together.
When i stepped to the plate and accepted fatherhood , and proposed to her (i was planning on doing so anyway, well before i found out about our son) I did the right things.
I am angry, I do blame her, and she should feel guilty.
Im not going to send the letter as she knows all of this ready, the tone of the letter i was interested in conveying to her, which she has never heard from me is more the boundary setting tone.
"im moving on, without you, and you seem to be moving on without me. I am not going to be here to do favors, pay for anything or offer any modicum of support so long as OM is in any way shape or form in your and S3's lives. We were building something amazing, and if you ever want that to come to fruition you have a lot of recompense to perform, but i am willing to walk that road with you if you are willing to take the steps necessary to show you know you made huge mistakes and are taking steps to repair the damage done to our son, myself and our families and friends. I vowed to stand beside you forever and support you forever, which i will uphold, if you return to me from the darkness"

"In fact, the letter could work in preventing her from ever giving you the answers you seek."


This one sentence held my finger back from the trigger of sending the letter today Sandi. After re reading some WW stuff, you are right. If i ever hope to hear those answers, she will need to want to give them to me herself, without any form of a prompt from me.
I think this will be how she "Hoovers"
by trying to start this conversation, and explain why she did what she did (it will be lies at first, if not forever)
She will try to reopen my wounds and climb in when her dark and twisty world gets too cold.

I hope she really does get help someday.......what a shame, a waste, a disappointment.

[AnotherStander]

I feel like i am way behind a lot of you in your recovery and acceptance, despite having been doing this for longer than some of you (being separated that is),

Very sorry you're suffering, this stuff sure isn't easy to get through. Recovery is very nonlinear and unpredictable, so try not to compare yourself to others here in that regard because some people recover quickly and others take a very long time. Neither timeline is better or worse, just different.

I feel like a failure, like all this tried and true methods arent working for me at all.

I can certainly understand your feelings, I think that's one of the phases we all go through. There were times I felt that way as well- like I was doing EVERYTHING wrong and was just a screw-up. Looking back I don't think that at all, now I can see I was just REALLY vulnerable and sensitive and reeling from what happened. I was not my normal self and you are probably not either.

I think she has since realized HOW MUCH about her lies and deceptions i have learned about, and being as non confrontational as she is, chose to just slander me, lie to her friends and family and discard me rather than owning her behavior and actually having to explain like an adult why she did what she did and why she never talked to me about any of the issues she was experiencing.

Could be. There was a WAS who used to post here years ago, one thing she said back then really stuck with me- she said the HARDEST thing she did in reconciling was having to go back to all her friends and family and try to explain to them why she was now reconciling with the man she had been saying such hateful, ugly things about for so long. She had everyone convinced her H was the devil, but then she emerged from the fog and wanted him back and was suddenly faced with having to reverse course on everything she had said. She actually said it scared her so much that she considered not reconciling just to save herself the embarrassment.

Anyway hang in there, I think you are doing pretty well!

[OrangeK]

Could be. There was a WAS who used to post here years ago, one thing she said back then really stuck with me- she said the HARDEST thing she did in reconciling was having to go back to all her friends and family and try to explain to them why she was now reconciling with the man she had been saying such hateful, ugly things about for so long. She had everyone convinced her H was the devil, but then she emerged from the fog and wanted him back and was suddenly faced with having to reverse course on everything she had said. She actually said it scared her so much that she considered not reconciling just to save herself the embarrassment.

This is a huge fear i have, that she will want to talk, possibly R and wont due to embarrassment, shame and guilt.

[Maika]

Yeh, but do you want to be with someone who isn't going to walk over hot coals to get you back? I don't think so. She's gotta make serious restitution, otherwise it's just a sham.

[OrangeK]

I agree wholeheartedly.
The ONLY way i would put the brakes on D or consider R after D at this point would be fore her to have committed to going to IC, and have ahd already gone a few times and made some progress. I would need to come and involve myself in that therapy relationship to hear what has been begun being worked on in these IC sessions. I would need to SEE not be told, serious actions of recompense, actions not words.
I would need definitive PROOF OM was gone for good, never to be in the picture again.

I realize these are unrealistic and aren't going to happen, at least not for years, and her "apologies" would be fabricated, unless she really did have a MAJOR emotional and maturity shift.

[Maika]

Yes - I think it's good to have an idea of what you would need if the other person ever came around and wanted to recon. IC, everything ended with OM, being truly remorseful etc etc are good non-negotiables.

But, where you are at right now, you need to stop the bleeding. You're worrying about which shirt you're going to wear tomorrow when your heart is cut open.

Don't try to borrow phantom problems from the future. You have plenty right now that need your attention.

It looks like intellectually and logically you know what you need to do, but emotionally you're raw. And that's okay because your emotions always lag behind your mind. That's why GAL, NC/Dark are crucial because they help cauterize the wound and start the healing process.

My emotions are just catching up now with my mind and I am almost a year out from BD. Time and consistent action towards yourself is important.

[OrangeK]

Ill keep on trucking. you are totally right about emotions and logic not meeting equal time-frames. My logical part knows where things are at, and knows what needs to be done. My emotional side still wants answers, hope, love and attention.

Cognitive dissonance is still such a struggle.
I consciously know my WW and the Woman i married are the same person. My heart wont believe it. I can literally picture them in my head a 2 completely separate people.
The hair color, attire and attitude changes help make that disconnection hard to wrap my head around.

She actually became a different person.
I can remember her saying "don't you think all people should grow, and change? Would you want to be the same person your whole life" When i asked her why it felt like she wasn't herself, like ive never actually known her.
I get what she was trying to say, but to use it as justification for completely destroying our lives without a shred of remorse is a bit much.

[SteveLW]

She was justifying her change. People growing and changing positively is one thing. A spouse falling in love with someone else and tearing their family apart is not "growth". It is negative, selfish, awful change.

Imagine if after marrying her you started banging another chick. She finds out and you say "shouldn't people grow and change?" Do you think she would accept that. These people are so delusional that they can't see their own lunacy. "Growth and change means I can sleep with someone else!" HUH?

Also, she isn't the same person. The person your W is today is not the woman who you married and gave birth to your son. She just isn't. Maybe she is being true to herself now, and she was fake then. Or maybe childbearing, motherhood, wifehood, a combination of them or something else changed her. But regardless, women don't just go back on their commitment without a major change of heart.

[OrangeK]

She was justifying her change. People growing and changing positively is one thing. A spouse falling in love with someone else and tearing their family apart is not "growth". It is negative, selfish, awful change.

Imagine if after marrying her you started banging another chick. She finds out and you say "shouldn't people grow and change?" Do you think she would accept that. These people are so delusional that they can't see their own lunacy. "Growth and change means I can sleep with someone else!" HUH?

Also, she isn't the same person. The person your W is today is not the woman who you married and gave birth to your son. She just isn't. Maybe she is being true to herself now, and she was fake then. Or maybe childbearing, motherhood, wifehood, a combination of them or something else changed her. But regardless, women don't just go back on their commitment without a major change of heart.

Funny you put it that way Steve, i remember asking her "What if i had cheated on you during all this" when we were still talking. She said "I would have left you immediately, it would've been the proof i needed that this relationship really is over"
So its ok for her to do it, but not me.
The amount of crap ive heard that i later realized was her justifying things to herself is astounding.

Sandi, i know my WW isn't your typical case, but i know these justifying feelings and trying to explain their way out of a situation is common. How often, whether they VOICE it or not, do you feel the WW eventually realizes she was trying to fool herself, not her H?