Things moving fast. Twists & turns.(hoosjim's 15th

[hoosjim]

Hi all. Has it really been two weeks? Things have not been moving as fast for us as they had been. A big reason has been what I call "fulcrum moments" in the lives of both of our boys.

S18 was trying to decide on a college choice, deadline May 1st, and was super stressed about it... didn't get in to his first and second choices, and the rest were all basically in a "dead heat". Coupled with his uncertainty over "what he wants to do with his life" as well as concern over which place will be best suited for him given his Tourette's Syndrome and other issues, it's been a stressful two weeks... but he finally decided and I think he'll do fine.

More troublesome and time-consuming was S19's previously-discussed academic difficulties. He effectively crashed and burned after a very good first semester. While brilliant, he is plagued by a reading/writing impediment that slows him down ("Processing speed discrepancy" they say, whatever that means) as well as by generalized and specific (OCD) anxieties and ADHD. When everything else is going smoothly, he can manage to get by, as he did first semester, albeit with difficulty and having to devote more time and effort than the average student. When things start to get sideways, however, the whole thing can come unraveled for him... and boy did things get sideways starting late last semester for him. Got arrested for underage possession of alcohol... Normally not that big a deal, but our state has changed that in recent years from being basically a slap on the wrist parking ticket to a class 1 misdemeanor implicating possible jail time. Enter the anxiety monster. "Am I going to jail, am I going to jail?!?!?" (He of course knows deep down that he is not, but the mere possibility plays havoc with his anxieties). This completely preoccupies his mind until we can get to trial and he knows that jail is off the table. Unfortunately, due to a number of just seemingly really bizarre and unfortunate delays, the trial gets moved out three full weeks... during which he gets almost no productive work done. A semester that was headed for mostly "A"s suddenly turns into a 2.99 average (Just barely below a solid "B"). The whole thing starts to come unwound the day after his arrest when the county jail holds him for THE ENTIRE DAY because of some BS anomalous paperwork jive. The kid stews there all day, misses all of his classes, and doesn't get out until he finally calls me (they didn't give him his phone call until late on the day AFTER his arrest) and I raise hell and they release him. At any rate, all of that bleeds over into spring semester... his community service, the alcohol education class, etc., ... with a series of setbacks, snafus, and screw-ups by the official organizations in charge snowballed and made his life and schedule an anxiety-ridden hell. As just ONE example, the alcohol education class he was required to take which was to have taken up a full Saturday but no more than that... failed to meet because the instructor did not show up on the appointed day. After we had driven two hours down to his school to take him there. 25 people assigned to take the class did not get to do so. This should have normally gotten them excused from the class, but somehow the administrator got away with telling my son (the only one for whom this was the last opportunity to take the class before the deadline) that he had to teach the class to himself, take the test, and then certify his completion. This took him the better part of a week due to his slow reading, complicated by his rising anxiety... during classes. There were several other things but... in the end, he just couldn't keep up. Coupled with an overly-ambitious schedule (he scheduled both the toughest physics class and the toughest math class in the program for this semester), he crashed. Only he didn't confide in us how badly... until about two weeks ago. Then there were decisions to be made about possible withdrawal from school for semester, pending deadlines... ARRRRGH. A complete mess.

Needless to say, during this period, W and I did not have a whole lot of time for "us". We managed to save some time to just chill and nest and snuggle and be close here and there, but we did no "work" on the program assigned us by our counselor (who is going to again yell at us when we meet with her tonight.) We talked about a couple little issues that came up, but nothing major. One of the things we actually talked about was the risk of getting too "heroically" involved in saving the kids at the expense of our own MR... W seemed less concerned about this than I did: "The difference is that we're aware of the danger, and that we are working as a team now, and that we are still making SOME time for ourselves."

Some tidbits here and there:

She is just really, really sweet to me right now. Even the little differences in me that used to annoy her... changes I'd made to myself during my 180 and GAL efforts that earlier made her angry "Oh, so NOW you're going to be that way" she now appreciates, and tells me so or, ummm... "demonstrates" her appreciation.

We talk a lot about the future, and what we are going to do once the kids are both gone.

We flirt and joke and tease good naturedly all the time... We are ML and just being intimate more than we ever have. Maybe even since we were dating. She actually has an appointment today to see about BC, which she had NEVER done due to concerns about the Church's (she's catholic) teachings on the subject.

She hasn't brought up staying after work again. We did have drinks with one of her female coworkers last night after work. She still talks about quitting though. Job just has become a drag for her.

We went to senior parents' night at the high school. She was going to meet one of the other moms and I told her I'd meet them there, which I did. Later, next night, actually, she asked me if I had gone because I thought OM might be there. I admitted that that was a consideration for me, not because I didn't trust her--though we are still working on that-- but because I absolutely do not trust him. (He ended up not actually being there, though I saw his son in the hallway as I was going into the school.)

We have talked a couple of times about whether or not it is "weird" or "not weird" how we are all over each other sometimes like a couple of teenagers. My take is that it does seem a little weird because I still have these concerns and doubts and this fairly fresh wound I am carrying around. Hers is that it is not "Weird" per se, but that it is "Weird that it doesn't seem weird to her".

I am growing more comfortable being the initiator in things, which she seems to respond very well to... Leading her places when we are out, making a decision on planning and sticking to it, intiating things physically and in the bedroom.


That's about it. Sorry no crises to report. I'll try to check in more frequently.

Love you guys.

[hoosjim]

Oh, and her bff rears her not-so-nice had again. She is allowed to contact her now (we agreed on NC at all for a month, but no visiting, going out, or other socializing). Apparently, bff is having a "really rough time" (awwww, poor baby, whod've thunk that affairs and breaking up families and marriages might, ya know, be difficult and hurtful and painful). W told me yesterday "I just wish I could see her and give her a hug." (I just really, really don't get the relationship, there... W really idolizes this woman, and screw ups no matter how bad don't seem to affect her mindset. W literally gets NOTHIONG from that relationship... bff is the prototypical ME ME ME person-- all take and no give.)

Then, first thing bff does is start obliquely trashing me (W shares her texts with me): "No, I am not okay with hoosjim right now... that whole group of people who used to call themselves my friends, now judging me and AP as being terrible, evil people..." blah blah blah. And also throwing in little digs like "So I guess you wont be coming down... things are going to be just like they were before..." (She has always given my W grief for "asking permission" from me before doing things-- she doesn't think spouses should have to do that-- and made fun of her for not being her own person. She obviously had gotten through to W previously, when she had led her on their WW odyssey last year, but W seems to be pulling away from that now.)

[SteveLW]

Jim, thanks for posting! We were all wondering.

Sounds like your last 2 weeks are very similar to mine and my W's. Dealing with academic (and behavioral) issues with kid(s), not having a lot of time for yourselves. Etc.

We did have homework from our MC. A book she wants us to read. For the first time my W was way ahead of where I was with the homework. I am taking that as a very good sign.

Like your W mine is showing a lot of good signs. I do miss her initiating sex, that was nice while it lasted and I will probably bring it up in a future MC session.

[hoosjim]

Sounds like your last 2 weeks are very similar to mine and my W's. Dealing with academic (and behavioral) issues with kid(s), not having a lot of time for yourselves. Etc.

If I could offer one piece of advice to newlywed couples and/or expecting couples, it would deal with this: Put your MR first... the best gift that you can give your children is a hot MR between you and your spouse. Our pastor uses a great analogy WRT this: "The pre-flight speech you get on an airplane always tell you to what? A) Put the oxygen mask on your child or B) Put the oxygen mask on yourself, THEN on your child. Reason? You cant help others when you yourself are asphyxiating." I don't know how much "damage" we actually did to our kids by not nurturing our relationship and showing them what a healthy heterosexual romance/marriage/relationship looks like, but we sure didn't do them any favors... especially in this day and age when these kids are so relationship-challenged as it is. At least my 2 did turn out to be loving, compassionate people. Hopefully they will get the M/F relationship thing figured out on their own and hopefully my W's and my resurging MR will still have enough exposure to them in their college years to maybe make SOME difference.

The other aspect of that is the "helicopter parent" angle where the precious little snowflakes can't deal with adversity and think they are the center of the universe. Thankfully, although we did not direct any attention to "ourselves" and our MR, we did not "hover" enough to keep both boys from developing some toughness and grit. (You don't overcome what my S1 did to get admitted to the college he is attending, and rise to become a varsity football starter at linebacker in the State's largest division at 5'6", 160 pounds without being blessed with having developed some toughness along the way). Still, both of mine do struggle at times... my S1's academic struggles this semester spring to mind and, in some arenas, he is still too quick to reach for the phone when there are still unexplored avenues to address the issue himself. Ah well, we are none of us perfect.

At any rate, yah... Don't try too hard to heroically rescue your kids. They need to be able to rescue themselves, and some of that effort can be better spent on your relationship with that person you chose to spend the rest of your life with...

[hoosjim]

Okay, so, a question for y'all. W's 50th birthday is coming up. she is, like most W who hit that age, at least somewhat self-conscious about it. She looks GREAT, but that's not helping all that much. For her 50th, I am taking her to Cancun... a place we went loooong ago when we were first engaged, and to which she has always wanted to return. She loves the beach in general and loved that place in particular. Now, if we can just avoid being shot by drug lords,...

So, my question is, and particularly to the W on here: Should I be planning something else? And, yes, we are now just weeks away so my planning opportunities are limited, but, just asking. What I mean is, will she be hurt that I didn't also plan something local with her friends? (leave aside that her friends encompass several different groups that don't really cross-pollinate, and that her "Best" friend is her toxic bff who would not really be welcome at a gathering by anyone except my W and maybe one other.) Should I at least be whispering in peoples' ears about this in case someone else wants to front something? She is not exactly excited about "being 50", but, she is not going out of her way to hide it, either.

She is very excited about the mexico trip... can't stop talking about it, how much fun it will be to be there just the two of us, at the resort, no kids, etc etc... so I know that that is going to go over very well... but... I just don't want to pull a "stupid husband" here and miss the opportunity to do something else I should have done. To me this seems like enough, but... I'm not a woman and dont' always do so hot trying to think like one.

Thanks, y'all!

[SteveLW]

Sorry, not much help from me. My wife requested that I not celebrate or mention her 50th. Obviously I didn't do that in totality (got cake and ice-cream and took her out to dinner). D wanted to throuw her a party but W was dead set against it. She didn't handle turning 50 well at all!

I would think a trip to Cancun would suffice, but obviously a small celebration with the family might be warranted.

[sandi2]

She actually has an appointment today to see about BC, which she had NEVER done due to concerns about the Church's (she's catholic) teachings on the subject.

OMG, can you imagine having a baby at this point in your lives?!

I am growing more comfortable being the initiator in things, which she seems to respond very well to... Leading her places when we are out, making a decision on planning and sticking to it, intiating things physically and in the bedroom

.

Yeah, she likes it.

Has your W shown any indication that she sees how BFF worked as a tool to hurt your MR?

Is she sticking with her IC sessions?

[Ginger1]

I'm telling you, women love it when a guy initiates and takes control instead of being passive. Passivity many times shows disinterest.

[AnotherStander]

Sounds like things are going well Jim, congrats!!

W told me yesterday "I just wish I could see her and give her a hug." (I just really, really don't get the relationship, there... W really idolizes this woman, and screw ups no matter how bad don't seem to affect her mindset. W literally gets NOTHIONG from that relationship... bff is the prototypical ME ME ME person-- all take and no give.)

Then, first thing bff does is start obliquely trashing me (W shares her texts with me): "No, I am not okay with hoosjim right now... that whole group of people who used to call themselves my friends, now judging me and AP as being terrible, evil people..." blah blah blah.

Oh man, that's a minefield. Her BFF sounds very passive/aggressive and narcissistic. The big problem there is if your W has an inclination towards being empathetic then she is ripe to be controlled and manipulated by a narcissist. It can be enormously frustrating to someone on the outside looking in because you can totally see what's taking place, but your W will just think she's helping a friend. I went through this with my GF and her BFF, I was careful to never trash talk the BFF but instead did a lot of validating. I think the validation eventually helped her realize that she wasn't crazy, that her friend really was taking advantage of her. But I think it's critical not to bad-mouth the friend because then your W feels like she's stuck in the middle of a feud. So try and take the moral high road. If your W complains about the BFF then validate, but don't talk bad about the BFF no matter what she says about you.

So, my question is, and particularly to the W on here: Should I be planning something else? And, yes, we are now just weeks away so my planning opportunities are limited, but, just asking. What I mean is, will she be hurt that I didn't also plan something local with her friends?

I would talk to her about it. Of course that would blow the "surprise" aspect of it, but at least you will know for sure what she wants. My W threw a surprise party for my 40th and while I appreciated all her effort that is about the last thing I wanted for my bday. I wish she had discussed it with me first.

[hoosjim]

OMG, can you imagine having a baby at this point in your lives?!

No.And we laughed about it in kind of a laughing past the graveyard way, after we were not particularly, ummmm.... careful... that first week. She is in that pre menopausal phase that means the risk is really reduced, but not absent.She did have a couple days where she was exhausted with a couple of other signs and we freaked a little, but all good now. But, yeah, that would've really thrown a curve into things.

Has your W shown any indication that she sees how BFF worked as a tool to hurt your MR?

No! Didn't you see what I posted earlier about her wanting to just give bff a hug to comfort her? WRT our marriage and the A, my W persists with the "I was a big girl, bff didn't instigate or cheerlead or do anything I didn't ask her to do. She wasnt even really an active participant other than 'being there'". Of course, I know different, at least in a couple instanxes, though w doesn't know that I know about BFFs phone call that day trying to lure W out. I am wondering if I should tell her I know about that, though honestly the level of participation she knows I know about is damning enough.

Also a problem in that vein, and something I feel like I should discuss with her, is her take on the beachievement trip last summer, where she left the family vacation aND went to a different beach to meet bff and another gf... but OM was also there. Now, during her big confession last month, W fessed up to this snd that they "saw each other a couple times", after having previously denied it repeatedly. Problem is, she now seems to be trying to minimize it. Last night, in session, bff issue came up, and I mentioned her having planned the beach trip last july. W said, "but that trip had been planned and booked for a while. OM only booked his snd friends' trip later after they heard we were going. They booked at same place and bff called and told me this and I told bff I wasn't comfortable with that so she changed our reservation to a rental condo as opposed to,the hotel previously booked. We did see him a couple of times but didn't stay at same place." She seems to think this,somehow mitigates it for her and also for bff. To my mind (I didn't say this but it's been eating at me and maybe I should), w elected to go there, leaving our family trip, knowing that OM was going to be staying nearby. And then they did hang out. I don't know,specifics but do know that W was separated from bff at a point very late in the evening (1 am), because she called bff on her cell, and also called a cab company. I haven't said any of that to w... but maybe I should? I feel like she doesnt understand hie hurtful that whole episode is.

Is she sticking with her IC sessions?

This is tricky. The counselor had several intensive sessions with her those first two weeks. Since then, the counselor has been acting more flexible. As if she wants us to be talking directly to each other. She said she prefers this direct dialgue. So there had been no IC for past 2 weeks. W thinks we just need to keep "building our relationship" and talking between ourselves. Thoughts?





More clarification on the above because i am sure i will get heat for "not holding her feet to the fire on the IC", but... I didn't insist on IC as a condition precedent or non-mnegotiable. What i did insist on was that we "continue seeing the counselor" and that we "follow the counselor's advice regarding when, how often, and who" to see her, as well as following her substantive advice. Now, at that time, counselor was insisting on IC, which i just naturally assumed would continue but... she (MC) has now backed off on that and is perfectly happy to just see us jointly and has said she only need see us individually if one of the individuals wants to be seen that way... and W is apparently not so inclined (though maybe she will be once i dump all of the above on her...)

In that vein: One other thing i wrestle with exploring, if i decide to delve further into the beach trip from last July, and that is that i know that on one other occasion she stayed at OM's hotel room. It was some weekend night after a night out drinking, and i don't know exactly when. I only know about it from one of the overheard conversations where they referenced it... she talked about being tipsy and about going back to his room to crash and then she asked him, jokingly/teasingly "Did you take advantage of me?" and i did not hear the response (could only hear her side of convo). She does not know i know this. Wondering if anything to be gained by bringing it up-- it did not appear in her global confession which covered pretty much everything else i knew and a few things i did not. Maybe its better left buried-- maybe she'd lose respect for me if she knew i could still take her back thinking she had slept with OM, IDK. OTOH, left undiscussed, it is likely to always be there, gnawing at me. I know what MC would say: No secrets, you guys both need to lay your cards on the table, but this one IDK about.