No affair(?), no feelings...is there hope? Part II

[sandi2]

Okay, I am getting a better picture of your personality. Which means, my original gut feeling was on track.

So, back the lighthearted comebacks issue. I do think there is a time and place where they are very useful and I can use them. But during these full on tantrums, not so much. Are you saying it's okay for me to lose my cool? You are right, I was scared sh'tless. But, not only because of her attack, I was also totally in fear of doing/saying the wrong thing. I didn't want to launch into an over-explainer speech

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Having a sense of timing, is important when using lighthearted comebacks.....else you'll just look stupid. Actually, you are sending a strong message, but doing it in a way that if she makes a scene, it makes her look very foolish and childish. The objective is for her to stop the self entitlement behavior and start respecting her H as a man who is not solely dependent on her or her paycheck. Perhaps I didn't word that correctly. I don't mean that you are trying to control her, but it is your way of handling the situation, without defensive type over-explanations, and without over accommodation.

The lighthearted comebacks are to be used at a different time than when she assaults you with these tantrums. And, should she suddenly go into a tantrum when you've used a comeback remark.....then immediately switch into serious mode.

I think the next time she refers to bringing home the paycheck, you need to immediately address it.

You: "Let me make something perfectly clear. Just b/c you currently bring home the paycheck, does not mean I work for you!"

I can think of so much more to add, but I'm sure you can, as well. However, you are trying to minimize your words, so make them count.

When I referred to losing your cool, I meant that you've spent so much time & energy catering to her and trying to have a happy W that she never sees you angry. There is such a thing as being too laid back. She has trampled over you and she sees you take cover. I use to do the same thing with my H. He would not get in my face and tell me off. He just wouldn't do anything........so, I treated him worse, and worse. It's as if a woman will keep pushing to see how much a man will take before he finally gets enough to fight back. BTW, my H doesn't let me speak to him in that disrespectful manner anymore.

Respond in an authoritoritive manner. If you are sitting down at the time she starts bashing, then stand up (not threatening, but not retreating). Stand as tall and straight as you can. (Practice this when she's not home, and practice different scenarios and your responses). Don't shout at her, but use a strong, manly tone of voice. You may not be in the military, but this is your domain, so speak with a tone & volume level that shows that you are in charge. The objective here is not to make her happy. Forget her happiness. That will fall into place, once you start acting like the man she needs. I know you can't see it, but her actions are begging for you to stand up to her and show her you have b@lls.

Not gonna lie, this scares me. But, that's okay. If this is the course it needs to take, I'm ready. When I first started learning what to do after BD, I think I got the impression that I wanted to avoid fighting with W at all costs. We weren't at a place where we hated each other and that was a good thing. But, in my case, I have created a monster. I don't think she is truly a she-devil--or least she wasn't when I married her--and I fully acknowledge my part in making her so self-absorbed and entitled. So, I guess it has to get ugly before it gets better, is that what you're saying?

Yes, that's what I am saying. I really do 't think she is a she-devil, either. I think she is immature. It's serious enough, but I see you having the potential to turn this MR around and set it up right. It will get worse before getting better, b/c of the degree of her contempt for you. She doesn't see you as a man. She does not desire you as a man. At best, she treats you like a gay best friend. At worst, you are no more than a lowly servant who waits hand & foot on her, for your room & board. She will have to see your b@lls in action, before she sees you as the man she needs, and before her sexual desire for you rises. If you get her respect, the desire will follow.

No, I definitely did not pack her lunch, or care when she tried to give me hell for it.

Good......just stop taking her hell for it. See, here's how she sees this type of action from you: She b'tches about being late and you won't even help by fixing her lunch......and she is obviously making all of this your fault (being late for work). If you are just sitting around doing nothing particularlly important, she sees you as some lazy slug she is supporting. It causes more comptempt within her. Whether right or wrong, she feels it is your job to help her get to work, with the professional attire and lunch bag. Of course, it's not your job, but this is who you've help to create. How did she ever get through basic training without your help? She knows how to be responsible, but she feels these jobs in helping her are your obligation to her. She is making all of her morning frustrations your fault, b/c you haven't taken care of her properly.

Does she set her alarm clock to wake at a certain time every morning? Does she repeatily hit the snooze button? Bless her heart........it must be hard to roll out of bed, after being up most of the night messaging. .

What does she see in you, when first arising? Is your hair standing up in every direction, unshaven, not dressed? I'm not saying to be dressed in a suit & tie, but when a woman already has contemp for the guy.......these little things work against him a lot. So, set your alarm to get you up ahead of her, wash, shave, comb hair, put on jeans & shirt. If she thinks you are a worthless bum.......at least you won't look the part. . (jk)

Another question..........when the two of you eat a meal, do you sit at the table together, or fix your plate and eat at the kitchen bar? Do you eat at separate times?

I just want to make sure that if I jump in the ring with her, I put her in her place and walk out with the upper-hand. When she comes at me with all her "Must be nice to not have to go to work" B.S., my instinct is going to be to explain to her why her argument is full of holes. I am a debater. I don't think this is the right approach here and I don't want to start arguing with her lack of logic. Her attacks are very predictable, I just need to plan exactly how I will respond and there will be no more 'turtling'.

I agree. You are at the stage I see a lot of newcomer H's afraid of making the incorrect move or saying the wrong thing. And, we are usually guilty of telling him everything he said wrong. However, it is with the purpose of him learning what to say, or not say, if it happens again, etc. I don't want you freezing up, wondering about some catch phrase that might work. When she's pitching a fit.......catch phrases don't usually work. Sometimes, if a WW is just sounding so childish, a H might say, "Feel all better now?". But usually, a comeback remark will fuel her anger. Some people advise that the H start shushing her, trying to calm her down. I don't like that approach, b/c I am a head on collision type. Seriously though, it's difficult to describe in a post some kind of one size fits all response, b/c you can't always react the same. Use wise judgement, in spite of what I or anyone else tells you how to respond to her angry tantrums. In my gut, I think she would back down if you stand up to her, but I'm not there watching the scene. She has been trained to respond respectfully to authority in the military. Based on what she told you about "taking some authority", I feel she is not just challenging you.......but needs to see you responding like a man who commands respects from others.

As far as loosing your cool, of course I don't recommend anything that hints of domestic violence. I don't think there is anything wrong when a man gives his b'tchy W a piece of his mind and walks out the door without telling her squat of his intentions. He could even walk out without giving a piece of his mind.......if he does it in a strong statement-making manner. . He doesn't want to appear as if he is running to take shelter, but rather, that he has had it with this woman!

Back to the part where I said I told her she can do her own laundry. She is currently working 12 hour shifts and doesn't get home til midnight.

Those are long shifts. Make sure you have the house clean (stay out of her bedroom) and keep food in the house. When she's working these long shifts, keep something cooked that is easy to warm in the microwave. I'm not saying to wait hand & foot on her. There is a difference in being considerate, and over-accommodating. She is a disrespectful, spoiled, self entitled, WW. If you keep the house and yard maintained, and there is food in the kitchen that's pretty easy to prepare.......I would see it considerate, from the woman's point of view. I think you should do all of the laundry, except her clothes. It's not like she has to draw water to boil and use a scrub board and then hang them on the line to dry. The only things you won't be doing (work wise) are her room, and her clothes. Right? Am I missing something? When you cook, make enough to have leftovers......but you don't have to fix her plate and serve her. Not while she's acting so bossy and self entitled.

Here's my problem. I feel like sitting her down and telling her she needs to knock off all the complaining and passive-aggression. We can have an agreed upon set of expectations for what I do as support since she is the one working and I have more time. I will make it clear she cannot expect this to include personal favors

Did she say she wanted in-house separation......or is this just in your signature to clarify the M status?

You: "We need to lay down some ground rules. When you are working 12 hrs, I don't mind having something prepared for dinner. (Say it this way, so you can still be gone GAL when/if she comes home). When you get ready to eat, all you'll have to do is fix your plate.....maybe reheat it. But, I'm not waiting hand & foot on you.......and I'm not doing your room or your laundry". Bringing home the paycheck does not mean I work for you........or that I'm responsible for you getting to work on time, how you look, or if you have any lunch packed".

I agree that this needs to be said. I am trying to keep any cattiness out of it. (It's hard, though). Say it with all the self confidence and determination you can muster. Not preachy, not like a speech, not wimpy. Say it quickly, but firmly. If she starts yelling or gets too b'tchy or out of hand.....walk out on her and leave the house! Don't stand there while she attacks you. If she can talk calmly, listen......but don't get into a long R talk. Expect her to pull out various cards to play (victim, guilt, control, pity party, blame, entitlement, tears and lots of threats). Stand your ground, no explaining, and don't wimp out.