No affair(?), no feelings...is there hope? Part II

[44tries]

The fact that you can't imagine having a conversation like that with your cheating W, is b/c you have lived in fear of displeasing her. When a man tries too hard to appease his W, there is no male dominance in the relationship.........and she sees him as being less of man. Women are naturally attracted to a man's masculinity and his male confidence. That is the sexiest trait he can have. Part of those traits is him always being the one who leads the MR.. In other words, he is the one in charge, and she knows she had better not play him for a fool......or be she can be prepared to kiss him goodbye. He doesn't mess around with those type of women......especially one that is married to him! He commands respect wherever he goes and interacts with others. He expects respect from his W, and if she gets a potty mouth toward him or tries to act horsey or b'tchy with him.........he knows how to deal with her RIGHT THEN And THERE! He doesn't tolerate her passive-agressiveness. And let me make a point in telling you that he doesn't tell himself he'll take the high road, or he will be the better person. No! This is what a weak, conditioned, hen-pecked H tells himself. He makes up excuses in order to live with his wayward W. It just kills me to read threads where nice-guys let their WW roughshod over them, and then say they decided to be the bigger person! Really? By not standing up for yourself, or letting her manipulate you like a puppet? I think in many cases, it's when she acts like a b'tch and he just lets it go. Bad mistake.

Wow, I am so glad you are willing to take the time to explain all of this to me; you completely nailed that my first instinct is to probably think of taking the high road. The whole thing about turn the other cheek, have a heart of forgiveness...I think they are important things, but it clearly takes some skill to properly wield them and isn't always appropriate. Things like the lighthouse story really resonate with me because I think my self-image is built a lot on being emotionally steady and fulfilling that idealistic fantasy that girls will be crazy and all over the place, but if you are standing there waiting when they calm down they will love you or something. I have gone far down the wrong tunnel; thank goodness I am learning this now while I'm still young I guess. I am really starting to see the line between lighthouse and doormat.

You may be asking what a man has to do when his WW is acting like a bratt (or much worse). Call her out about it, right then & there. But now listen carefully b/c you are a talker. Being a fellow talker myself, I know how easy it is too say too many words. I tend to be a lecturer. It doesn't work well with spouses or kids! Call her hand on it as soon as she starts that old cr@p, and don't let it go for a few days and then sit her down for one of your long talks. It will be powerless. Instead, call her hand on her behavior when it starts, keep it short & simple, and use as few words as possible. If you say less, she'll hear more.

Again, you are a mind-reader, I was asking just that. Short and simple, but firm. Got it. If I start calling it out every time and make it clear I won't tolerate it, will she stop? Or will I have to keep doing it forever?

Anyway, in your particular sitch, I think you can overcome your fear of making your W angry, or worrying about what she'll think about your actions, by starting out as I suggested in my previous post. Your W is trying to turn you into a handmaiden, and you are succumbing to it. I think there is time for you to turn things around and out this relationship on the right track. Being afraid and doing it anyway.......is bravery. I think you have the "right stuff". You just need a little help in getting started. Not that I am some kind of authority, but I am a former WW married to a man who had NGS (he has changed a lot), and I have a strong sense of the mindset of your WW. Once she sees she can not order you around, play her manipulative tricks, etc., she is going to start seeing you with new eyes. I think she'll fall in love with the man you are going to become.

Don't get me too excited I am very flattered you think I have what it takes to pull this off. I think so too. In fact, I know that I can overcome my fear and change the way I handle my W. But her actions and feelings are out of my control, so I hope you're right that her attraction will come back. Your insight is more helpful than you can know. You're right I just need help getting started. I'm very smart and did well in school, but this was not one of the subjects they taught!

You; "Humm, no, I don't think so".
WW: "Why not"?
You: "I need my hour". "I'm sure you understand". (and then wink at her, as you walk away).
WW: "Oh, I understand plenty"! "You are punishing me for wanting a few minutes to relax when I first come home".
You: "Look, no offense, but I just need to get out and do a few things on my on".
WW: (angry and sulking). "Fine! I certainly don't want to tag along when I'm not wanted". "I would think you would want your W to join you! "Yada, yada, yada"
You: "Okey-dokey, then". (No more conversing about it after this point. Start doing something else, while you are whistling. That may help to shut her up. Remember, you don't worry about her response or what she thinks. In fact, just assume she will react badly. She'll get over it).

These dialogues are so helpful. Totally will be a 180 for me, but I'm hoping it will become more natural pretty quickly.

Learn a few key phrases, like......

"Is this the part where we act like a M couple"?
"Is this the part where we act like a separated couple"?
"You are very unattractive when you (fill in the blank)".
"No".
"Cut the passive-aggressive cr@p". "It is unattractive".
"You can stop the manipulation any time now, b/c it's not going to work".
"You can stop trying to play me".
"Put your big girl panties on". "I'm not going to do your chores".
"If you don't know what you want to eat, how do expect anyone else to know"?
"If you want something to eat, you can watch to see how I fix my plate, then follow suite".
"You are not at your day job now, so you can stop playing drill Sargent".

I need to print these on an index card.

I don't know if you like to whistle a tune, or hum a song.......but I suggest you start doing this when you come in from in from GAL. You can also do it when you feel some tension in the atmosphere. You know, like when she is sulking, moaning and groaning about not able to do chores, etc. Just start whistling. You'd be surprised how that works in shutting down some of that yada-yada cr@p.

Interesting idea! I am admittedly awful at keeping a tune, but I'll come up with something comparable.

Good job of not giving in and doing her chores for her.
That's a great 180!

As always, thank you!! If my MR somehow gets out of this ditch, you will seriously personally be a huge reason why. Along with all the others here that have been so kind to give me advice.

Now, here's my chance to take one step down this road to the new me and not look back...W just messaged me that she wants to go out with her coworkers tonight, "but doesn't have a ride home..." The passive-aggression won't die! This time the conversation ends at "Taxi?"