Sorry about the blank posts. Apparently copy/paste doesn't work any more. The one in the last thread and the two here were supposed to be this:
I had a conversation with D21 and D18 recently and it seemed like they were trying to tell me something...
After skirting around the issue for a while, it finally came out that D21 and D18 both know about my W's A. In fact, all of the family knows including S8, although he doesn't know it as an A. He just knows something is wrong with the R between my W and OM.
According to them, they (D18 and D21)have known since pretty much the beginning. In November, D18 was at my MIL's house with my W for the weekend and saw her texting the OM and the emojis she was using. She told my W that what she was doing was the same as an A, but my W denied it. This makes sense because this is about the time when D18 and D21 started seriously rebelling against my W and their R went south. Since then, they say they have called her out multiple times on it and she just changes the subject but doesn't deny it.
I told them that I knew about it, but I was vague as to when I found out. I told them I was suspicious in November, probably knew in my heart in December (I confirmed the A on Dec. 25) and only recently found out for sure. I did not tell them how I found out. They didn't seem very happy that I haven't confronted her about it, so I explained that I was trying to get our R to a place where she won't run out the door when I do confront her. I also explained to them that I think D14 and S8 deserve to grow up in a whole family, so I needed to do what I could to save the M if I can. They seemed to understand, but at the same time they all but said I should boot her. They are very angry at their mother over this and plan to text/write/talk to her once this semester ends in two weeks. We will see how that goes...
I haven't talked to D14 or S8 about it, but some of the comments they both have made make more sense now - especially D14. It seems like she has been trying to tell me what is going on without telling me, if you know what I mean. I really feel bad for her because she had her mother on such a high pedestal. I'm not sure how to handle it with her at this point. I'm sure she has talked to her older sisters about it, but at the same time, they are trying to protect her so she may not be letting out as much as she needs to.
As I mentioned in a n earlier post, I don't see my W texting OM as much as I used to, at least not while I am around. I haven't checked up on her because of the mood it puts me in, so It is hard to tell. Three days ago she took a call from him while I was home and smiled when she answered it. By the end of the call she was rolling her eyes and trying to get off the call.
The evening of the same day I went to an event with S8 (D14 came along to get out of the house) and the OM was there. He did something to annoy both of my kids and D14 once again told me how much she does not like him. She also commented that she thinks my W is "getting sick of him too." I asked what makes her say that and D14 said that my W isn't texting as much, has made a few comments about him, rolls her eyes and makes faces when she is on the phone with him.
If this is true and what I am observing is real, there is a possibility of the A cooling off. I don't know for sure though. It could just be wishful thinking on both of our parts.
What are the signs that the A is cooling off or ending?
I do wonder though if she wants to get caught or if she is just so comfortable that she doesn't think she will. As I mentioned, she hasn't denied the A to my Ds in a while, leaves her phone unattended around the house now and made the "open marriage" comment I told you about in my post two weeks ago. She also seems to be taking phone calls from OM in front of people now. Odd behavior for someone trying to keep a secret, at least in my eyes. Then again, I've been wrong about a lot of things in this sitch.
As far as my W and I go, I think things are continuing to improve. We still talk quite a bit with her starting more and more conversations. We have not had anything close to an R talk since that text exchange. I have been avoiding it so I don't push things too far too fast. Most of the conversations are still kids, business and daily events, but I am able to get her to laugh now and I am getting quite a few smiles. I am throwing out compliments when appropriate, but trying not to overdo it. I told her I was proud of her for something and she seemed to really appreciate that. Also, I have been trying to do a few small things for her here and there to show I care.
As far as my W's actions, she still isn't doing much for me, but I don't ask her to do anything either. She is still making sure there is enough dinner made for everyone and has made breakfast for me a few times when she is making it.
She seems to be keeping her commitment to not speaking in code too - at least I think she is. There have been a few times that I have done something she didn't like or that she would like done differently and she told me nicely. She didn't get upset or complain, she just told me. I am still trying to listen for code and read between the lines, but so far there hasn't been much there.
My W has talked about the future a few times as well and has asked me to go to a concert with her in October. There are two concerts we go to every year. One is simply a lot of fun to see and the other is sort of "our" concert (we get a bit mushy about it). In November she purchased tickets to the first one for D18, D21 and herself. I called her out on this during our "date" and she said she didn't get a ticket for me because I said I don't want to see the same shows over and over. I reminded her that I have always said I would see both of those shows every year. A few days later, dates were announced for the second concert and she asked me if I wanted to go with her. I don't know if any of this really means anything, but I am hoping it does.
We have been out a total of three times, once alone and twice with kids. One of the times with the kids was supposed to be just S8, D14 and myself, but she invited herself to come along. I wasn't happy about it, but I didn't object because she had made the comment about the house taking me away from her and the kids. I felt it was best to include her if she wanted to come so she didn't feel I was pushing her away. The timing hasn't been good to ask her out alone again and I don't want tot put too much pressure on her. I am thinking of asking her to go out next weekend again though.
Right now I am just trying to be consistent with my actions so hopefully she will soon start to believe the changes are real.
Do you think I am on the right track, or am I pushing too hard?
M: 25 T:33 Me: 48 W: 49 S24, D21, D18, D15, S8 All living at home while going to school A confirmed: 12-25-17 EA Definite PA Probable
I've typed a few posts, but everything I was writing seemed to be irrelevant and long, so I didn't finish them. I'm not sure what I am about to type now has any relevance, but here it goes.
Not much has changed between my W and myself since my last post. No arguments, good communication, gestures of kindness towards each other and no need for boundary setting. At times it has seemed that she was almost being too nice though.
The Sunday after my last post my W was in the MB doing something. I came in and noticed a flyer on my dresser that had been floating around the house for a couple of months for a show coming to a local theater. I asked her if she put it there and if it was a hint, and she said she did and that she wanted me to take her to it . We ended up going to that show and dinner last Saturday evening. It was a nice time again. We talked about her mainly, which was my intention, and everything was much more relaxed and less awkward than last time. there was some talk about the future included this time as well.
After I asked her about the flyer on that Sunday, the subject turned to her volunteer work and how they need more help. There was one position in particular that needs two people, but they only have one, the OM. She asked if I would be interested in taking the required training and helping. I didn't give her a definite "yes" or "no" but I did tell her if she gave me all of the details I would consider it. I hesitated to say "yes" because if things go as I hope they will , my W will not be involved with the organization next year since the OM is staying on. Also, I would be working very closely with OM, which I am not too sure would go well. She told me a few nights ago that it was not going to happen for several reasons, but I think the real reason, after piecing together some of the comments she made leading up to this, is that the OM does not want me involved. Go figure...
Later that day I was taking S8 to the park to learn how to ride his bike and I suggested that my W and D15 come along, which they did. While we were there, my W sprung on me that she was going on vacation in July (right after she suggested I use my vacation time for the same week). I asked who she was going with and she said that she is going with her friend that she says needs to get a D and her enabling friend. I then asked how it was being paid for and she told me her mother was paying for it (her mother can barely pay her own bills, let alone give my W money for a vacation)and she simply said that her mother could afford it. She then, and it sounded quite sincere, asked if I minded. I didn't give her an answer "yes" or "no," but she could tell I didn't like the idea (she kept trying to sell me on it). Not because I don't want her to go on a vacation, but because I don't necessarily believe her story about where the money is coming from and who is going.
Instead of giving her a direct answer, I suggested we use the money to take the kids somewhere they haven't been before, which turned in to a whole different conversation. She started telling me how I have always said I didn't want to go on long vacations. I reminded her that now we are taking half as many people, so those types of vacations are more affordable. This started her talking about all the places we could go and she has been planning a vacation for the family ever since, as well as the one with her "friends."
Later that evening my W, S8, D15 and I were eating dinner together and we were talking about the day we had. I mentioned that I was getting antsy because I had not done real work around the house for three weeks. My W looks at me and says "Isn't it nice to relax and do things with your family for a change?" I think it was her way of acknowledging that I have been making the effort to spend more time with her and the kids. She also thanked me for going with them later when I was going to bed.
During dinner, the topic of moving to another state came up and we had a fairly serious conversation about it. She is all for it, of course, but I had to tell her what I see as obstacles. She agreed with them all, but said they it could all be figured out. We ended up talking about specific states and cities we would consider. One of my biggest objections, S24 not being able to live on his own, she set out to solve on her own - she had a conversation with him asking if he would be willing to move with us. He said "yes," so this may actually be happening.
The following Thursday, my W, S8, D15 and myself went to a movie. I had to meet them there because I was coming straight from work. Everything went smoothly while we were there, but on the way home S8 asked me something that bothers me a bit. We were the only ones in the car and he jokingly called me by my first name. It reminded him of something, so a few minutes later he asked "Why does mom lie to me so much now?" I asked what he meant and he told me that my W had changed my name in her phone to my first name from the pet name it used to be (I already knew about the change). When he asked her about it she told him that it had always been that way and that she didn't change it. He went on to mention a few other things she has been less than truthful about including the OM. I really think he is starting to do the math and figure things out. I didn't have a good explanation for him, so i just told him that sometimes people like to change things just to make them different.
He also told me that he told my W that he wants to quit the organization because he doesn't like the OM. She told him that he wasn't allowed to quit and doesn't believe that he doesn't like OM. I told S8 that I would talk to her, so that should be a fun conversation.
A few days later my W tills me about a concert that she was going to buy tickets for that she wanted to go to with me, but the Groupon had expired. She said she didn't buy them because she didn't want to spend the money and wasn't sure I'd want to see the band. I told her I would have liked to go to that one, but I thought she had already purchased tickets for her and her friends. She said that she hadn't and asked why I would think that. I told her that I had heard her talking about it a few months ago and that since she has tickets to at least ten different concerts this year (part of her MLC it think) I had just assumed she was going. A few days later the Groupon was back and she bought the tickets.
Curiosity did get the better of me and I finally checked her texting habits. It is as I suspected - she is still texting the OM but the times have shifted to only when I am not home or sleeping. The quantity has gone down slightly, but the contact is still there. The context of the texts are unknown. They could be innocent and only about their work together, but most likely not. She also has been guarding her phone more again. This seems to have started after we went out last Saturday. I noticed this after I checked her activity.
At this point I am still not sure what to think. Sometimes it seems that she is coming back to reality and other times she seems to be cake eating. I know she is still conflicted though.
There have been no ILYs and no affection shown towards each other. I have been avoiding this purposely. I have still been asserting my "Alpha" side - directing her by touching the small of her back or shoulder, making decisions but listening to her input. I don't know if she has noticed it, but she hasn't complained about it either.
She has had a huge change in attitude towards me, so my big concern with what I am doing is that she is slotting me in to the dreaded "friend" category instead of coming out of the fog back to reality.
One last thing. I have finally started to GAL! I have been out a few times after work with co-workers, which is not my ideal crowd, but at least I am out of the house. I have also been out during the day several times on my own doing things I like to do.
I looked for meetup groups in my area, but quite honestly, none of them interest me. I plan to keep looking though. I have even looked for support groups for this sort of sitch thinking maybe it might do me some good and I could meet people there, but they all seem to be for women only.
M: 25 T:33 Me: 48 W: 49 S24, D21, D18, D15, S8 All living at home while going to school A confirmed: 12-25-17 EA Definite PA Probable
Well I'm new here but I've read a bit of your situation so I'll give my opinion. She is clearly still in an affair, you have access to her phone records and they show communication with OM. She is still seeing you as plan B, she does just enough with you to keep you on the hook. She is in no way turning around, she even suggested you volunteer and work alongside OM. This should have been an immediate no response from you, instead you said you would give it thought. This shows weakness on the ultimate level in my opinion. Also, why are you guys still in the same household? I understand she homeschools the kids but still, your enabling her wayward lifestyle.
Like i said, i am by no means an expert but you need to step back and look at things differently. Stop doing activities together, i.e. Concerts and things with the kids. She needs to see what life will be without you. You are giving her the best of both worlds. I know its hard because of the kids, especially S8. You need to contiue to shoe him love and he will adapt. You cannot cover up for wife and make it seem like she is perfect. This is just a quick reply from what I've seen, ill read further into your past and see what else i come up with.
M:26 WAW:26 T:11 M:7 D:3 BD 1 10/16 I love you but not in love BD 2 2/18 I love you but... W moves out 3/18
Thank you for your input. I do appreciate everyone's opinion and suggestions.
That being said, when you have time to back and read more of my sitch. You may understand why I am taking the approach I am a litte better.
Originally Posted By: Newly20
She is clearly still in an affair... ...She is still seeing you as plan B, she does just enough with you to keep you on the hook. She is in no way turning around...
Yes, I too believe the A is still going on. I'm just questioning whether it may be dying down a bit. You are right. She could be playing me like a fiddle right now. I don't know. I do know that in the month since I stopped doing DB by "the book" and started giving my W more of my time as sandi2 suggested, we have made more progress than in the three months leading up to it.
I'm not "slobbering all over her," as sandi2 put it, I am just giving her more of my time and a little more attention.
Originally Posted By: Newly20
...she even suggested you volunteer and work alongside OM. This should have been an immediate no response from you, instead you said you would give it thought. This shows weakness on the ultimate level in my opinion. Also, why are you guys still in the same household? I understand she homeschools the kids but still, your enabling her wayward lifestyle.
You have to understand that my W does not know that I know about the A. I've elected to follow sandi2's and Accy's advice and work on myself first and then confront her. If I don't like myself, how could I expect her to want to be with me? sandi2 and Acc hit me with that 2x4 many painful times.
As far as working alongside the OM, "no" is what I was saying in my head, but refusing to would have just been more of the same to her. Once the A is revealed, it would become a different story.
Originally Posted By: Newly20
Stop doing activities together, i.e. Concerts and things with the kids. She needs to see what life will be without you.
In her mind, she already knows what life without is like. Her complaints all revolved around me working too much and not spending time with her and the family. Doing that now would just be more of the same to her.
Originally Posted By: Newly20
you are giving her the best of both worlds.
Right now I am. Once I confront about the A, it will most likely have to change.
Originally Posted By: Newly20
I know its hard because of the kids, especially S8. You need to contiue to shoe him love and he will adapt. You cannot cover up for wife and make it seem like she is perfect.
He may adapt, but he may not fully recover. Kids are affected by this more than we like to believe.
I'm not covering up for my wife and making it seem like she is perfect. I stopped that months ago.
I've talked to all of the kids openly about what my W is doing (not directly about the A with S8 and D15) and all of them know her faults. I wasn't sure what to say to S8 when he asked that and that was the best I could come up with spur of the moment. I wasn't about to tell him that his mother doesn't want to acknowledge that she is M to me because she is having an A.
M: 25 T:33 Me: 48 W: 49 S24, D21, D18, D15, S8 All living at home while going to school A confirmed: 12-25-17 EA Definite PA Probable
Over the last few weeks I have gotten several temp checks from my W. On Thursday I got a a very big one.
While I was at work she sent me a series of texts asking me basically how committed I was to her. The questions were asking if I truly love her, if I can accept she's different than when we first started dating, if I still want to grow old with her and other similar questions.
I told her that these questions were a little unexpected and asked if something was wrong. She said nothing was wrong she " just wanted to know the answer to those questions"
On Friday she sent a text message asking me if my day was going better then the previous day ( I had a rough day at work on Thursday). This is something she hasn't done since last October.
On Saturday when we got home from S8's soccer game I noticed something sticky on the seat where he was sitting and made a comment about it. He wasn't around so when I got in the house I asked him about it. While I was doing that my W started getting things to clean the seat with. I asked what she was doing and she told me she was going ro clean it for me. I told her she didn't have to, but she insisted.
When she was done she started wiping down the interior of her vehicle. I grabbed a rag to help her. It didn't take long, maybe 10 minutes. I did it just to reciprocate the favor.
Afterwards we went inside and she made lunch for everyone. She then went out, got the Shop-Vac and started vacuuming my car. I asked her why and she said "because". She has NEVER cleaned my car for me.
On Sunday I was having a bad day, very tired, not in a great mood, so I was not very talkative. Late afternoon MY W asks me whether she had done something to upset me because I was acting "weird." I assured her she hadn't - I was just very tired. Again, something like this hasn't happened since before all of this started in November.
I don't know if it's a coincidence, but since that temperature check she's been acting very differently. It may mean nothing, but it is certainly very confusing.
I do have a question though. Our 25th anniversary is tomorrow. I haven't seen too much on how to handle it, but I'm sure conventional wisdom here says not to do anything.
I feel like I should acknowledge it in some way, shape or form. Nothing major, but something just to recognize it. I say this because of the way things have been changing and because of the way she reacted over me not doing anything for Valentine's Day. That seemed to be a setback and I don't want another one at this point.
So how much would be too much?
M: 25 T:33 Me: 48 W: 49 S24, D21, D18, D15, S8 All living at home while going to school A confirmed: 12-25-17 EA Definite PA Probable
Over the last few weeks I have gotten several temp checks from my W. On Thursday I got a a very big one.
While I was at work she sent me a series of texts asking me basically how committed I was to her. The questions were asking if I truly love her, if I can accept she's different than when we first started dating, if I still want to grow old with her and other similar questions.
I told her that these questions were a little unexpected and asked if something was wrong. She said nothing was wrong she " just wanted to know the answer to those questions"
On Friday she sent a text message asking me if my day was going better then the previous day ( I had a rough day at work on Thursday). This is something she hasn't done since last October.
On Saturday when we got home from S8's soccer game I noticed something sticky on the seat where he was sitting and made a comment about it. He wasn't around so when I got in the house I asked him about it. While I was doing that my W started getting things to clean the seat with. I asked what she was doing and she told me she was going ro clean it for me. I told her she didn't have to, but she insisted.
When she was done she started wiping down the interior of her vehicle. I grabbed a rag to help her. It didn't take long, maybe 10 minutes. I did it just to reciprocate the favor.
Afterwards we went inside and she made lunch for everyone. She then went out, got the Shop-Vac and started vacuuming my car. I asked her why and she said "because". She has NEVER cleaned my car for me.
On Sunday I was having a bad day, very tired, not in a great mood, so I was not very talkative. Late afternoon MY W asks me whether she had done something to upset me because I was acting "weird." I assured her she hadn't - I was just very tired. Again, something like this hasn't happened since before all of this started in November.
I don't know if it's a coincidence, but since that temperature check she's been acting very differently. It may mean nothing, but it is certainly very confusing.
I do have a question though. Our 25th anniversary is tomorrow. I haven't seen too much on how to handle it, but I'm sure conventional wisdom here says not to do anything.
I feel like I should acknowledge it in some way, shape or form. Nothing major, but something just to recognize it. I say this because of the way things have been changing and because of the way she reacted over me not doing anything for Valentine's Day. That seemed to be a setback and I don't want another one at this point.
So how much would be too much?
Conventional wisdom can take a long walk off of short pier. Everyone's sitch is different. There is no one size fits all. And when a big date (and the silver anniversary is a HUGE date) comes around, and your wife is at leas trying, then I say YES you should do something. Dinner, gift, the whole nine yards.
Even if you end up divorced, the fact that you made it through 25 years of marriage together requires acknowledgement. If just you and her for dinner is too intimate at this time, then include the entire family.
Get her something too. For our anniversary last month (19 years is the bronze anniversary) I got her this cool bronzed stone statue about 2 feet high of her college mascot. She is a huge fan of her university's sport and this was a perfect gift in our sitch. She loved it. (We also did our usual trip to Ruth's Chris steakhouse for our anniversary.)
Again, if celebrating your 25th anniversary with your spouse is wrong (even if they are walkaway) then I don't want to be right!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
