... I don't understand why your W isn't more aware of how she's pouring salt into the wound when she interacts with men. I have wondered if you try to tell yourself she doesn't intentionally act flirty or forward.....and that it's just her personality, and if other men get the wrong idea, then that's their problem (she has actually told you similar words).
I'm not trying to speak for Ginger, but we both have said we can kind of relate to your W b/c we, also, have a friendly, outgoing personality. However, we both have said that we have boundaries. When the woman is innocent of ulterior motives or even if she desires the male attention/flirting........she still lives by a code of conduct that shows respect for herself, as a lady, and for her H.
I'm saying, it's not just you. I'd dare say any H would have the same feelings.......maybe a lot worse. I hope the MC will press upon your W that having the attitude that she doesn't care what others think....including the men.........is just not acceptable in a MR. It would be especially cruel for the spouse that has been betrayed. But let the counselor handle this, b/c your W may see you trying to control/punish her. As you pointed out, this is some remaining rebelliousness.
on the one hand, i too am a girly, girl... i love pretty things, the color pale pink, painted toes, blush lip gloss... on the other hand, i can hang with the guys... my best friend is male, and i tend to get along with males... my female friends are my sisters... i am a sports fanatic, whisky and tequila shooter, Scotch sipper... no fruity mixed drinks for me... i taught my sons how to throw a spiral with a football, how to bat, and how to catch fly balls, how to play pool... i speak proper English but can take on the vocabulary of a drunken sailor in a split second... on my son's 21st birthday last year, he and i smoked cigars and drank bourbon (something i had promised him since he was about 10)...
i am used to getting attention... i have always gotten attention... but i am not naive... even in the throes of my affairs, i never lied to myself... i never tried to make myself believe something that wasn't true... i am not full of myself, but i am aware that men can and have been attracted to me... either your wife is truly naive, or she is putting on a silly little girl-y act, and that is not attractive... actually, neither are attractive: being naive, or the silly act... it seems immature to me... i do see that she and i have a lot of traits in common, but immature i am not... when i was loose with my boundaries, i was intentionally loose with them... i knew i was crossing a line... and i could not and would not try to make myself believe that i had no intention of doing that...
I feel like you may have missed Ginger's point. I think she was saying that you may need to sacrifice something you enjoy doing (going to local bars where you know a lot of people) to keep you're wife away from an environment that is not healthy to a solid MR. I refer to local bars like you describe as a "Hookup House", and your W seems susceptible to advances of the males that attend these bars and have gotten good at knowing what to say to hook a girl quickly.
Thank you coconut for putting it so succinctly. This is exactly my point I was trying to drive home. You need to change your scenery for a while. Your M is in too vulnerable of a spot for this kind of atmosphere at this time. You sound like you are enjoying a place where you don't know anyone. It sounded like a good, drama free night. Stick to those for now. It's a small sacrifice for the sake of your M.
Good evening. Sitting here eating a pizza after our workout and listening to Chris Stapleton-- my newest musical devotion. Dude is just really, really talented. Billed as a country artist, but he's as much blues as anything. Some of his stuff somehow reminds me of the Band, who I also like alot.
Anyhoo... good MC session this evening. No IC this week as MC wanted just to talk to us together. And, as it turned out, she didn't do much talking. In fact, she was quite impressed with how much talking we did, with each other, without much prompting from her. (W and I had actually started talking about 15 mins prior and it just sort of flowed seamlessly into the session once Jessica skyped in). Issues we discussed were 1) appropriate boundaries with members of the opposite sex, with particular discussion of my W's behaviors and being cognizant of any signals she sends off as well as cautions against letting people get too close or sharing too-intimate personal details; 2) accountability and not discounting the LBS's (my) feelings and hurt... being respectful of the boundaries established by me while still allowing for w to voice her feelings; 3) Me being a bit jealous of W talking with other men; 4) My sometimes habit (though i am WAY better now than i used to be-- one of my 180s) of being non-responsive via text and phone, and also the importance of letting each other (me included) know where we are. W noted that for several months i would go off and she wouldn't know where i was (Though the kids did) and that i reverted to this during the week i was away after the recent BD-- I told her that during those periods i did not feel like i owed her any explanation of where i was nor, most recently, did i feel any sense of responsibility towards her in that regard whatsoever; 5) Her continued fear of rejection, by me, based on our long SSM history, and that it was really "Scary" for her to open herself up to me that first night back... she did not want to be rejected again, and she continued to worry in the back of her mind about a return by either or both of us to our old patterns, and 6) the importance of continuing to engage with the MC, both jointly and individually, though MC is increasingly favoring "joint" since we both seem so open now to discussing even difficult things with and infront of each other. MC also "yelled" at us (not really yelled, she is very, very nice) for not doing our homework-- while the previous week we had been really good about it, this past week we kind of let life get in the way.
W was receptive on all counts. Admitted it was hard... that she did wonder how long it would take me to trust her again, but did understand that we had only been working on building trust for her for about three weeks, whereas she had had seven to eight months of seeing me in action and learning that i am not the same man who was so closed off and so neglected her all those years. She said she did not see her going back to the dark place she had been in, nor did she want to. She said she is in it for the long haul, and however long "it takes me", she is willing to do whatever it takes and put in the work. She still has not gone back to the post work get-togethers, though says she has been getting pressure too, and that she still thinks about quitting but worries we couldn't afford it. But she is NOT happy in that job, there, right now.
There was a lot of validation, both ways. She understands how i feel and says she will be more aware of how she behaves around other men. FWIW, she said the whole time over there at the bar talking to those two guys (which she says was only about five mins), she kept trying to get my attention to come over but i wasn't looking... and I wasn't really very much as i was trying to play it cool and only looking infrequently and even then only obliquely. She also said that they were talking alot about "her husband over there" and that she pointed to me several times, that they complimented her ring (she does have a really nice diamond... a five generations-old family heirloom i got from my Grandmother). I did note the touch on her shoulder and she said she can see how that looked and that she DID pull away (which i told her i did not see), and that the guy was trying to get her attention to show her a picture of his son, a football player, on his phone after she had mentioned her own son played football. AAR, NOT repeat NOT excusing here... just reporting on what W said in session, as she and i had not discussed this episode previously. She did allow that she should be more sensitive of my feelings, and how i felt about her talking to other men particularly in light of the recent hurt.
Other stuff... She has been sharing her phone with me constantly. Not in a "hey look at me" way, but, just... IDK... naturally is the best way i can think of it. Like a H and W should. And i have been doing similarly.
We're making alot of plans for the future. After the kids are both in school this Fall. Retirement. Etc.
Oh, and she's taking me to Dallas to see Chris Stapleton with the Eagles in June, LOL....
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
hoosjim, all good stuff! Keep up the good work. Sounds like she has seen the light in a lot of the things that were discussed in the most recent posts. Only red flag, though minor, is her expecting you to trust her after 3 weeks. That is just not logical. I guess I would frame it to her that if you had been unfaithful, how long would it take for her to trust you again?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
What do I need to do to get an update from you? Just so you know, I really stink when it comes to begging. Come to think of it........I don't remember ever having that experience. Hummmm.......anyway, whenever you get time, you might remember us once in a while. .
Hope everything is going well.
((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
