Firstly he would need the ticket references, to have got the cash from the bank.
Known where to go to pay, then paid.
Someone put him up to this, asked him to do it.
It's not good, stinks of WW in cohorts with OM and BFF.
It smells. Dead fish smell bad.
I think you are having the wool pulled over your eyes and it's unlikely it is S. I also understand trying to resolve this for S as it's complex, but you can't keep bailing him out of jams.
If S knows who paid then that would be a BIG stressor.
This ball of wax string needs unravelling.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
BTW, how did OM react when your W gave him the "get lost" phone call?
It was very quick. "Hoosjim is hete, too. I'm married, i love my husband, this is what i want, you need to leave me and my family alone." W kept it together pretty good. Om was his sometimes charming "what, me?" self... "sorry if I caused any problems.. just trying to stay friends with y'all", etc. Yeah, right. Be friends with me by calling my W and leaving messages saying how much you're "into" her. Ended it as "Just stay away". The letter was more explicit "Ive told hoosjim everything... no secrets between us... keep calling and we'll get a restrainING order followed by arrest"
Nothing heard from the guy since. Unless it's the ticket being paid. Both W and I changed our numbers, and W enlisted her Christian friend at work to help keep her on track and to field any calls from OM, which she says have not come. Supposedly, before bff blocked him, he had told her that he was worried about my text threats, thst I "sounded crazy", which I suppose is not completely unfair...:)
Quote:
how would paying this ticket gain him any favor if no one knows that he did it? it is quite the mystery... who paid the ticket??? are you positive your son did not pay it?
You don't know this guy. He is not only extremely manipulative but extremely patient... master of the long game. He very easily could have done it to keep in his back pocket as a later "reveal". He also knows how the system in this county works (he has numerous police and ems contacts as a wrecker driver) and could easily have assumed we would infer thst it was him based on the controlling dynamics: whoever did it did it intentionally, knowing they were paying S18's ticket. People who knew and had a motive to do such a thing is an extremely small group. Basically him.S18 had nothing to fain by doing so. I already knew about accident and ticket as he called me from scene, and I told him well before date of payment that we would be going to court to try to get it held in abeyance in exchange for driver improvement course. Plus he doesn't have that much cash laying around. Definitely wasn't S18
Vanilla:
Quote:
Firstly he would need the ticket references, to have got the cash from the bank.
Known where to go to pay, then paid.
Someone put him up to this, asked him to do it.
It's not good, stinks of WW in cohorts with OM and BFF.
It smells. Dead fish smell bad.
I think you are having the wool pulled over your eyes and it's unlikely it is S. I also understand trying to resolve this for S as it's complex, but you can't keep bailing him out of jams.
If S knows who paid then that would be a BIG stressor.
This ball of wax string needs unravelling.
Nah, you misunderstand how that system works, here. It's no secret where the courthouse is here, and he's familiar with it anyway from having to give periodic witness testimony there in connection with accident cases. More importantly, as I posted previously, you do not need any ticket or even the ticket number to pay. Anyone can pay by just walking in and saying "I want to pay hoosjims ticket. Clerk of court will look it up for you. They don't even check your i.d. All they care about is getting paid. OM/bff/WW plot makes zero sense anyway... why? As to bailing son out, no one's bailing anyone out of anything except me bailing my self out of higher insurance rates. S18 will pay me back the legal fees, fine, and insurance deductible out of his summer job. May take him all summer to pay me back, but he will. Plus he's suffering by not having a car to drive for the forsee able future. Finally, as stated above, S18 has/had nothing to gain and also had something to lose by paying oFF the fine in advance. My kids have faults but stupidity is not one of them.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
More color for artista on the above and ZOM taking long view... He cyber stalked her for weeks before first making contact. FB friended her saying "oops I thought you were another Mrs hoosjim I know" (a near impossibility as she does not have an at all common name). Maneuvered me into getting him yo call her on the phone which opened the door. Other things he did. After talking to W recently and con firming some things I already expected,bit is very clear he had designs on her LONG before they actually began the EA by text in late 2016.. perhaps even long enough in hindsight that his "friendship" with me was a complete sham intended only to get him access to my W.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
After talking to W recently and con firming some things I already expected,bit is very clear he had designs on her LONG before they actually began the EA by text in late 2016.. perhaps even long enough in hindsight that his "friendship" with me was a complete sham intended only to get him access to my W.
Someone needs to beat the living sh*t out of that b@stard.
More color for artista on the above and ZOM taking long view... He cyber stalked her for weeks before first making contact. FB friended her saying "oops I thought you were another Mrs hoosjim I know" (a near impossibility as she does not have an at all common name).
hahaha... phony to the nth degree! btw, how did things go with W's BFF? was she understanding?
btw, how did things go with W's BFF? was she understanding?
So, first signs of trouble.
W and I been hanging out, having fun socially, having great sex, flirting... she's always saying she L's me, constantly texting, etc etc, she's had "an awakening"... "hates that person she had become"...
But...
Cracks appearing on the remorse and humility facade. I mentioned the first joint counseling session where she (after MC introduced the idea) discussed ME revealing what I had done in terms of checking up on her (spying) during the A. If you'll recall, I quickly slammed the door on that and she meekly demurred. Then, after the session, in which MC assigned her to write out a timeline of the A for me, at least insofar as the post July phonecalls went,she spilled... everything. Dates, places, other participants (such as bff), how she felt doing it (like a different person, not herself...Couldn't stop herself though she knew it was wrong... made her feel bad/guilty in spells but that didnt stop her.. all the WW emotions... and said she now hated that person that she had become.) There were alot of tears... and dhe kept saying "and now I know you're going to leave me" and "I'm so sorry, but I've been trying to get up the courage to tell you and I was so afraid and now it's coming out".
Okay, all reasonable. But some of the rebellious and selfish narrative started peeking it's head out last coupla days, imo.
We've been doing the post affair recovery exercises assigned by MC.. somewhat loosely because some stuff (biggest example being physical reconnection) we've already done in one way or another. She has been a willing participant in these and, most notably, has been more open and honest and vulnerable about her inner thoughts and feelings, even when uncomfortable ones, than I can recall. Like, ever.
But...
Two issues gave rise to the troubling talk/demeanor: 1) bff, and 2) socializing at work.
She accepted all the "boundaries and expectations" on my list, but has not been completely submissive and humble in doing so. Two weeks ago it was "please come back, I'll do anything" and now I'm hearing little things,like "This is what I want, and I'm willing to do all the things on this list to try to save our MR, but I'm also scared that you're never going to let me forget this, that I'm always going to be nervous and looking over my shoulder and afraid of making some little mistake or forgetting to tell you something" and "I worry that I'm never going to feel comfortable and you're never going to want me to hang out with my friends". In particular, while she cancelled her two get togethers in coming weeks with bff... she now wants me to talk with bff... "clear the air"... that bff is supportive of our MR because she sees and knows that that is what she (w) wants and what makes her (w) happy... that bff herself has changed and does not like the person she(bff) had become when hangin out with om... that bff is moving away and that she will rarely if ever see her after that... that she would like to find a way to "make it safe for you (me, hj) , for me (w) to see bff... You (me, hj) could even go to dinner with us, stay nearby, even at same hotel maybe... and me and bff and gf could go ahead and have our birthday slumber party." (This would be in june). That "she's giving up all this other stuff snd shed really like it if she could swe bff that weekend". I told her she missed the point and that I don't feel like she understands how bad BFFs role in her A hurt me, or how important it is for her (w) to prove herself to me. Fwiw, about the shorter term cutoff, bff has allegedly said," if that's what you want, and if that's what you two need to make things work, then I am okay with that and I understand"
She slso, yesterday, after a really good MC session where we discussed a little of that and MC urged me to write down a list of trigger points for me, and to continue exercises, wondered how long she was goin to keep paying the price for her mistake. "Yes, I effed up, I admit it, but we're doing do much good work now, and the 7 months prior to the gym meet up were not a complete waste. I'm not happy about how we got here, but I AM happy about the place we have gotten to." For my part, I said that I felt the same as I had previously about things done while om was in the picture. That I felt like any progress we made or thought we had made during it period of time was a lie, because she had choosing to Dragon is incredibly disrespectful and hurtful thing that she knew I had told her and asked her not to do comment into the process with us. Whether or not she had actually seen him or been up to with anything with him. Even just talking to him was just as serious a breach of trust.
Two days ago, she also had a moment that made me kind of pause and go hmmmm... when I mentioned that she had told me previously, last fall, when I had asked, that if om tried to contact her, that she would tell me. Her response was that she didn't recall me" requiring that of her" or something like that, implication being thst maybe there was no or at least a less serious violation of trust since SHE had not contacted HIM. I reminded her that she had said that in response to a later question, not as the result of any July precondition, but she said she didn't even remember that.
Also a bit of a dust up based on relationship with doc at her office. Toward end of MC session I had mentioned the "act like we're married" expectation, where I had listed as nonnegotiables "no one on one social activities with doctor or any other man EVER", and no two on one or three on one social "wine downs" or other events at least in the short term... three months... while we worked on our MR. W had alot to say about that afterwards. As a starter, she turned and crosse legs with me and said "okay, honesty, I am going to share a couple of things with you and it's probably going to make this worse." Okay, i say, guardedly. "Doctor (she uses his first name, as, actually, do i) has shared with me that Mrs doctor has a drinking problem. That is why he keeps the wine at his office, and why he has a drink at work to wind down after the work day, because he can't do that at home, and, because sometimes she finds a way to be drunk anyway by the time he gets home. I found this out last week, when I invited him and his wife to come out with us and listen to music at one of our favorite bars, thinking that that might help you feel a little better about the dynamic at the office. That is when he told me that he didn't want to do that because of his wife situation. I have also shared with him that you and I have had a very very good experience with counseling and it has helped us to get to a better place than we have been in a long long time. I even gave him the name of our counselor. I know that you were going to think that this is too much sharing and that this is getting too close, but I wanted to tell you. There is nothing going on there, I can promise you that there is nothing going on. And that there will be nothing going on. I am devoted to you, now, and He is very in love with his wife. You can see it in the way he interacts with her when she comes into the office."
Of course, I had to usual objections. Primarily that this is exactly how things had gotten out of hand with the OM, that she had shared too much with him and not me to close, and that she herself didn't seem to know at what point it had happened, or when and how the line got crossed. Also, that I can trust her completely, and still have doubts about the doctors intentions, as well as about the propriety of these get-togethers at the office. She then said, well I haven't been going to them, have I? I've turned down several invitations to do so over the last 3 weeks. But eventually I would like to be able to go to them again, these people are my friends and I enjoy their company. She then asked me if, today, I would have similar objections about her going to have lunch with her old, male friend from college, who just passed away last fall not long after she had last seen him. I said, that that was a fair question, and that it was somehow different, but that I was not sure that I can tell her why it was different. This led to a conversation on the way to the gym well I reminded her that she needed to know where the line was when interacting with other men, particularly with this doctor. She said that she knew, and that there is nothing to worry about, and if she ever thought that there was that she would quit. I then made one final suggestion to her that she try to remember that there is a difference between being a sympathetic ear and being a shoulder to cry on and that she should not be the ladder. Her response to that was that " now that really pisses me off" as we were walking into the gym, and I didn't get an explanation until the car ride on the way home. That was where she told me that she thought that that was really patronizing, as if I didn't think she understood the difference, or where the line was drawn, or that she was some little girl we didn't know anything. And that it was just like the way I used to treat her back in the bad old days when I didn't trust her to know anything or to know the right way to do things. Which is true, I did treat her that way. but not sure how pertinent was to this particular issue, and I told her so.
Finally, as we are getting ready for bed, we continue to discuss the matter. I reminded her that this was still all very fresh for me. Then had not even been quite 3 weeks when everything had blown up for me and that I had felt I had a dagger sticking out of my back. That I thought all this was through. That I thought she was trying to move past it too quickly, and devaluing my feelings on the matter. That these things have hurt me in the past, and we're still hurtful to me, and that for her to minimize my feelings disrespected me, and scared me a little bit, making me question her commitment to me into working on the marital relationship in the right way. Not sure we were really resolved anything there, and I think we'll have to bring it up with the marriage counselor session. We did both calm down, and then actually had make-up sex which is another thing we never really done before.
anyway, these little things and sentiments popping up in her make me kind of nervous. Not so much that I worry she's going to drift back to om. I am pretty confident that is over. but I sense a little of the latent rebellious Ness and self-justification still floating around. as well as a bit of an unrealistic desire to just be read all of the unpleasantness without processing it
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Wow Jim, this is was a little bit of what I was afraid of, especially with her past interactions with people at work, and the Doctor in general. But yeah, it does seem like it is awfully early for her to be asking for concessions already. I could see in 6 months her saying "bff is in town and I want to meet her for dinner if that is ok?" since she would have shown consistent behavior over time. But, 3 weeks later?
MC should be able to help here. It sounds like you have a really good one and they should be able to point out that this thinking is what led her down the road to what happened before (both 3 weeks ago, and prior to that!).
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Two weeks ago it was "please come back, I'll do anything" and now I'm hearing little things,like "This is what I want, and I'm willing to do all the things on this list to try to save our MR, but I'm also scared that you're never going to let me forget this, that I'm always going to be nervous and looking over my shoulder and afraid of making some little mistake or forgetting to tell you something" and "I worry that I'm never going to feel comfortable and you're never going to want me to hang out with my friends".
Totally understandable. All perfectly reasonable concerns and feelings given the situation. She WILL have to deal with those thoughts and feelings.
Meanwhile, you'll have to be afraid that if you make some little mistake that you'll 'drive her to the arms of another man', that every time she goes out with her friends she's actually screwing someone else, and that you invest further months and years into a relationship with someone that you later find out isn't committed and has been seeing someone else behind your back again.
The road ahead will be so difficult it requires a complete commitment or one or both of you will turn back.
I think if she's committed to the M and just telling you as a partner what she's going through, that's fine. If she's expecting you to waiver on your boundaries to lower the bar for her that's not fair to the load you already are carrying here.
Hopefully your MC can help guide you through this conversation. Good job holding the course.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
anyway, these little things and sentiments popping up in her make me kind of nervous. Not so much that I worry she's going to drift back to om. I am pretty confident that is over. but I sense a little of the latent rebellious Ness and self-justification still floating around. as well as a bit of an unrealistic desire to just be read all of the unpleasantness without processing it
be nervous... and don't overlook these things... i had a feeling this might happen... this is what happened with me... it was not long before i started hiding things from my H again... i had this same attitude... i didn't go back to OM, but i did revert back to inappropriate behavior and eventually met up with the next OM... but months before that--about two months after H took me back--i was hanging out with gfs (including my GGW BFF) who were also married but who had the same attitude i had... we even did a girls' trip to Santa Monica... not good...
ugh... this is what i mean by holding her feet to the fire... by summer, she will be wanting girls' weekends and such... you have to let her know that this is unacceptable... revisit the boundaries with MC if you must... but point blank ask her "are you able to accept these or not? because my position has not changed in 3 weeks... i will walk if you are not serious about committing to our marriage... 3 weeks later, and you are already backpedaling and that is raising red flags for me..." something a long those lines...
i am hopeful in that you are not making excuses for her... that's progress for you... good!
