LBW, H in MLC and with OW - part 3

[Vanilla]

He is a shitty father that's why "they" think he is. It's a poor me, I am a victim. Baaaaa hoodoo

And that level of porn is behavioural addiction and it is very weak character. Addicts put their addiction in front of everything else.

I doubt he has feelings about this, just his image is damaged now his cake has been taken away.

Apart from D13, I would leave the kids to make their own minds up which is what you are doing. I believe in the truth as appropriate to age. Not secrets, this guy is addicted to porn and has OW, and I think it's an open secret. And they can say what they think and if they want to they should. I do not think secrets are in any way a good thing. It's why arent we saying it truthfully syndrome or shhh pretend daddy is ok (referred to as gaslighting), it creates head spin (cognitive dissonance) and disbelief in both parents perception of reality.

I think you are spot on.

The more you push your kids the more they will push back and frankly it's idiotic control. And it is entirely possible he isn't loved by his kids, feared maybe, judged possibly, probably not liked even. So I wouldn't tell the kids to validate what they may not feel nor that they will reach out to him.

That may be reality and it bites.

And don't assume he loves or likes them, how he treats you is just extended to how he treats them. There is no rule on this, just validate their feelings on it. If they don't want to reach out then they don't. It's their choice not yours.

Get out of the way is the right thing.

Spot on Meg, love your style.

V

[meg24]

V, the kids don't want to be around him right now, unless the whole family is there. I do not that S19 (20 next week, they grow up so fast!), s17, and d13 (14 in June, baby goes to high school! ACCKKKK!) have all expressed to me that H has never been there for them emotionally. Other than that I don't know their feelings about him.

H has an addictive personality and ADD. Pretty much anything he gets excited about he takes to the extreme, for a few months, then is over it and on to the next. As for the porn, I have told him in the past I don't like it and that it is a problem for him. I even tried looking/watching with him a few times, but I just don't like it. H has always tried justifying it, saying it's healthy to look at porn, and it doesn't affect his view of women/me. For a few years now he has looked at it more in secret.

I hope he sees the damage it does someday.

[meg24]

Journaling.....

I feel like I'm in a much better place today, compared to earlier this week.

H sent me a text late last night. I was still awake, but didn't response (yay for me!). Basically said he has lot of sh*& going on in his head and can't make sense of it. Said he's been lashing out at me and treating me like sh%&, and he feels like crap after every time he calms down. Said he's taking his problems and confusion out on me and I don't deserve it and he's sorry.

I replied when I got to work this morning, said I'm sorry for the pain he has, and that I understand that he feels leaving was what he needed to do to sort everything out.

He replied later that part of his struggle is the kids don't want him anymore, they've made it clear they chose me. He said he sent them each a text yesterday and none have responded. Said he'll stay out of our lives so he's not a burden, that's what he feels like and he feels like all he's good for is a paycheck, and he said he knows that's not how I feel, but the kids make him feel like that.

I replied that they are confused and hurting just like us, they don't know details and only react to what the see and experience. I told him he can't use the kids' feelings as an excuse to not work on the M. I told him that as far as his relationships with them, HE has to repair those, I can't do it for him, and to keep trying.

I then proceeded on another 180, told him that if HE doesn't try to repair things with his kids they will end up feeling about him the same way H feels about his dad, and I know he doesn't want that. He has said for years he doesn't want to be like his dad, when for years he has done so many things like his dad. I haven't spoken up about that until now. He seemed to take it well.

H said then that he thought that at least I should sit all the kids down and own up to my part in our R where it's at. I told him that I have, many times, and continue to try to teach them to do things differently in their current and future relationships. He said that's all he can ask.

[meg24]

I have a question for the vets here.

At the end of heavy discussions with H (they're all still initiated by H, I've been good at not initiating), he always says "try to have a a good day/evening" or "i hope this doesn't ruin your day/evening" or "don't let this ruin your day/evening".

Do they say that to maybe temp check kind of, to make sure the world still revolves around them? Or something along those lines?

[SteveLW]

Maybe guilt? I know my W was guilt ridden that after BD (which I initiated) on 12/23 that my Christmas was ruined. She'd say "let's not let it ruin the holidays". So I think it comes from guilt, and maybe a bit of a temp check, as if to see if it still has as big of an impact on you as it used to.

[meg24]

Maybe guilt? I know my W was guilt ridden that after BD (which I initiated) on 12/23 that my Christmas was ruined. She'd say "let's not let it ruin the holidays".

My H said the same thing at BD (12/20/17), "I don't want this to ruin Christmas or your birthday" (my birthday is a month after Christmas, WTF?!).

So I think it comes from guilt, and maybe a bit of a temp check, as if to see if it still has as big of an impact on you as it used to.

This is what I'm thinking, too.

Who knows. I am trying to not try to figure out what is going through his mind. Sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not.

[meg24]

So it's been a loonnggg Friday the 13th, and that being said, I don't know what to think of today's events.

H texted me in the middle of the night last night, it was night off work, this time I really was asleep (remember, he's been working graves all week). The jist of it... he's got a lot of his mind, guilt, anger, love, pain, all running together in big f'ed up ball of emotions, doesn't even know who he is anymore.

I replied at later in the morning, sounds like a lot going on in the, more than I can imagine. Next line, I know I shouldn't have said, but I said "think about this question, if you don't know what you're doing, why are you doing it? Then I said sometimes I think this started because you wanted to prove a point but then it spiraled out of control and you don't know how to stop it and go back.

Was having lunch with a friend later and got a text, "I just want you to know that I love you and am going to work on making myself better. I saw commercial on tv and made me think of when you were pregnant with s21, we were young and had whole lives ahead of us, and now I feel like it's all just crumbled to dust and blowing away. You are my best friend and I can't lose that or you." He then asked what I was doing tomorrow, he would like to see me before he has to drive 1 1/2 hours to be at work at 8:30pm. I told him my plans for the day, said maybe we could meet for lunch in the city before I head up the hill home late afternoon.

when I got home from work, he had come up to the house during the day and left me something. It had to have been before anyone got home from school, as s21 didn't mention seeing dad. H had taken his very favorite picture of me in the world, from shortly before we got married (he keeps it framed on his dresser, but, of course, didn't take it when he moved out). Anyway, he put the photo on the entryway table, with a single rose and card. In the card he said thank you for still being here, and he is going to work this out. Also said that there was a lot to my early comment about him starting this to prove a point and it spiraling out of control.

More conversation this evening before I went to Celebrate Recovery. I told him he had to cut off all ties with OW before anything, even facebook. I said I know she didn't start this, but she got stuck in the middle and didn't help at all. He said he was ending it with her. He wants to work things out with us and work on moving back home.

My hopes are not getting up, I need to see that he's sincere and genuine. I know he knows the changes I've been making, but I need to see that he's serious, that there are absolutely NO OW, EA, PA, or whatever.

I need strength.

[Vanilla]

Oh dear we are getting the 'pity me parties for one' aren't we?

Words mean zilch, Nadal, zippo. After years of neglect your kids are going 'nah'.

Nah is a great place to be, if he carries on as he is gaslighting and pretending then eventually it will end with 'dad, drop dead' syndrome.

It's all just pretty words, intended to pull at your heart strings and go ahhhhh, maybe his heart is changing" but pretty is as pretty does.

You took away his cake, he loves cake with cream or ice cream? And sauce on a China plate with a fork, freshly baked in his favourite flavour of 'all mine".

Reality bites and reality is biting with WH. Gotta like it. He is getting stale mouldy bread with sour milk. And he feels entitled to his cake. But anything is better than nothing. Sounds like scnoopie needs more from him.

He is changing his life as a result of watching a minutes sloppy commercial, hey that will replace hours of therapy and hard work. It's one of the silliest things I have heard in a long time. Take me back because I have been watching nappy commercials? Ridiculous.

I am afraid this looks to me like hoovering, it's pure script, classic. The 'oh I am sorry I dipped my junk and physically abused you by risking your sexual health, I am sorry I neglected our kids. I am sorry because I am hurting and lacking cake. My children haven't connected with me and I also lack cupcake too. If it carries on this way it will be public knowledge, it's an end secret how horrible I am. Waaaaaaaaaa

Actually I was wondering if his middle name was weiner?

I call this type of hoovering weinering. The public apology whilst flashing his schlonger on porn sites to scuzzies.

Is that enough strength for you? I am sending you lots plus white noise ear plugs so when he starts his cootie words you can also go 'nah'.

I heard all this from the G 'I know I have issues' and 'so, sorry I hurt you, I didn't mean to'. Eventually after taking him back a couple of times then I went 'then grow up and deal with it'.

I would also STFU on your kids with him, he knows the position and telling him looks like emotional blackmail to me. Change or else? It isn't going to help you or him. He knows, your kids actions of 'neh' speak loudly enough, more than words. Watch out he will blame you for it because you haven't persuaded them he loves them? Trying to do that with kids in the mindset of 'neh' is going to put a bridge between you and them. They don't believe it when you say it because that's not his actions, you may want to believe it but in a state of 'neh' they won't. I think this will hurt your R with your kids if you persist.

Concentrate on you, put in those earplugs and stop engaging on it. It's cake and he is eating it up. Save your cake for you and the kids.

Believe actions not words. As Cadet says how do you know he is gaslighting? His lips are moving.

V

[Vanilla]

OK my analysis and how I reached the thoughts I did.

If you want me to stop posting to you Meg, I will. OK?

-----------------------
Journaling.....

I feel like I'm in a much better place today, compared to earlier this week.

That's great.

H sent me a text late last night.

Why late at night? It's classic tactic to keep you tired, stop you sleeping, weaken your defences.

I was still awake, but didn't response (yay for me!).

Next time just delete.


Basically said he has lot of sh*& going on in his head

it's the nappy commercial, it leaked into the scrambled eggs he has for brains.

and can't make sense of it. Said he's been lashing out at me and treating me like sh%&, and he feels like crap after every time he calms down. Said he's taking his problems and confusion out on me and I don't deserve it and he's sorry.

Then he needs to stop.

I replied when I got to work this morning,

I think don't reply.

said I'm sorry for the pain he has,

OK validation, but he did this to himself.

and that I understand that he feels leaving was what he needed to do to sort everything out.

No he wanted to keep dipping his schlonger, weinering and hoping you would be Mrs Weiner take him back or even better force feed him cake in the 'pick me' game.

He replied later that part of his struggle is the kids don't want him anymore, they've made it clear they chose me. He said he sent them each a text yesterday and none have responded.

Yes, the state of 'neh' and I suggest you join them there. And notice the blame game and the sorry for myself stuff, they have picked you? No, they have mearly gone 'neh' on him.

Said he'll stay out of our lives so he's not a burden,

Ahhhhhhh, poor olde abused WH out in the cold.

that's what he feels like and he feels like all he's good for is a paycheck,

oh more blame and pity me, plus a slight underlying threat?


and he said he knows that's not how I feel,

What?....

but the kids make him feel like that.

So your kids are respousible for his feelings? That is some strange LOGIC.

I replied that they are confused and hurting just like us, they don't know details and only react to what the see and experience.

STOP! It's his behaviour that caused this, your kids aren't confused at all.

I told him he can't use the kids' feelings as an excuse to not work on the M.

He only wants cake, from you and cupcake from them.

I told him that as far as his relationships with them, HE has to repair those, I can't do it for him, and to keep trying.

No, honey please. Trying is a Weasel word, when he starts in earnest to work on himself then he should reach out.

I then proceeded on another 180, told him that if HE doesn't try to repair things with his kids they will end up feeling about him the same way H feels about his dad, and I know he doesn't want that. He has said for years he doesn't want to be like his dad, when for years he has done so many things like his dad. I haven't spoken up about that until now. He seemed to take it well.


I can't see that as a 180, it's more variety of the same. And emotional blackmail. A 180 would be 'it's up to you, I am no longer getting into this and will not respond on your R with the kids anymore'.


H said then that he thought that at least I should sit all the kids down and own up to my part in our R where it's at.

WTF? It's your fault that he is a cheater and treats the kids badly? That he is a Weiner?

I told him that I have,

180, stop and support your kids in their state of Neh. Nah is a great response to his pretence and I think support it. Nah is the appropriate passport requirement in the State of Neh. Go be a citizen of Neh too.

many times, and continue to try to teach them to do things differently in their current and future relationships.


He said that's all he can ask.

Until the next nappy commercial.

V

[KitCat]

I think V is way too negative.

Meg I think you are still being TOO ACCOMMODATING.

Big freaking deal you don't respond to his text until the next day - you still respond and you write novels.

I believe your H will end with with OW. I believe that your H does miss and care for you deeply. I do feel that he is classic MLC and I stand by my earlier thoughts that H feels unappreciated by his children - right or wrong those are HIS feelings. Don't invalidate them by telling him he needs to work on his relationship and building better or repairing bridges. A simple yes - teenagers can be self absorbed and ungrateful. He feels he is just a paycheck (... so did my H.)

Meg... dear Meg. You need to give yourself more time and distance from this. You need to stop agreeing to see and meet with him every time he asks. It looks like you are just sitting and waiting on him. Do forget that when he comes around and is even sincere you will get angry with him. You have a lot of undealt with emotions as well. Do you want him back after an A - you still have to figure that out.