I'm right there with you Gordie, asking all the same questions. I too wonder why I still love her. I too wonder if I am just expecting what I think she should say instead of accepting that her way might be different. I think Babe and Irish might be right, and it kills me to admit that as that advice applies to me too.
My W isn't wearing a ring and I struggled with wanting to keep wearing mine because I am married and want to. I stopped because it turned out being a constant reminder of where I was in my marriage. I didn't stop wearing it to punish her or teach her any lessons, I stopped wearing it so that I could try and detach without the constant reminder. Not that I'm having luck detaching, but at least that isn't part of it. I know I'll put it back on one day when I'm ready.
Sorry, didn't mean to talk about myself in your thread, but I really sympathize with your situation because I think we feel very similarly in regards to the status of our marriages. I'm riding this thing out with you...where ever that ends up leading.
Thank you. I’m obviously struggling in my current stage because I don’t know where I am and wanting to do the right thing. And yes, reading these boards for two years, I am well aware of the many false reconciliations only to be hit with another BD and another OM.
So what’s the right thing to do when she is obviously trying in her own way to act M again? Latest developments: unsolicited, she gave me her phone password and she has started to talk more about the future as if we will remain M for the long haul.
How am I supposed to react to these things? I feel if I continue to keep her at a distance, it’s not the right thing.
I mirro her. She said ILY for the first time in many months and I said ILY too. She hugs me and I hug her back.
Is this when I initiate a R talk? Suggest counseling?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Gordie - I don't know that I have much in the way of good advice but that's rarely stopped me before.
I remember what Jack wrote in one of the "sticky" threads here. He said that things don't end with a revelation, but with a whisper of doubt.
There's a few different narratives that we could look at. The first one, which both of us bought earlier on is that this is a MLC and is a process. job says it a whole lot better than I ever could, but in essence the person in crisis has to face their demons and purge themselves to heal. If she swings by she can perhaps give an opinion that is grounded on a whole lot more experience but I would think she would say that your wife hasn't dealt with her issues and may still be in replay.
The second one which is a tougher stand is that the person who cheated needs (again) to take full accountability for their actions and be willing to walk over hot coals to make it right. Part of this is that the person did their actions because at their core they are a selfish person and they need to unlearn that which is tough and rare.
Finally there's the whole "let's sweep this under the rug and never talk about it again" approach which I think many unfaithful spouses would prefer and is what most people do. Thinking about that more broadly, let's say that one of your kids did something stupid - if they expressed basic remorse and promised not to do it again you and I as parents would probably accept that. Because the consequences are out of proportion to the act there is less incentive for them to not do it again.
One other key thing here is to acknowledge your own hurt and how you are dealing with it. I hope you are continuing to get professional help along with perhaps support from friends and family. The way things are going right now, your W is not on a path to "make it up to you". That can mean that your own wounds if left buried will fester and poison you.
My own - barstool opinion - is that people don't fundamentally change who they are. We were willing to accept our spouses and the masks that they perhaps wore for many many years. We have sunk costs. But if someone behaved poorly and selfishly before, they will again unless they do the hard work to change who they are. This requires self-reflection usually aided by professional help. Suggesting that though may well backfire.
For me, I can't see my ex ever doing what would be necessary for me to trust her again. The last I saw of her, she is a very angry and selfish woman who feels that she is hard done by by the world. Thinking back over the last 30 years (it will have been 30 this fall), that is indeed who she is. For you, it seems different but it may be that your W has just put on the mask she was wearing before.
We can't force change on them. They have to want to change themselves and we have to choose if we accept the person they are.
Don't know if this helped. We're all amateurs here.
@TeamGordie
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Your w isn't ready to return to the real world. She's in replay and will be for quite some time. She's not dealt w/her issues and the more she focuses on you and your actions, the less time she has to deal w/her issues.
MLC takes a lot of time. A couple of years is nothing when it comes to looking at the entire process and how much time it takes for them to face their issues/demons and find a way to accept the things that they can't change and heal. Her facing of demons/issues has been bubbling under the surface for many, many years and it didn't just spew out of the pot in 2016.
The only way that you are going to get thru this is to back off, leave her alone and keep your expectations at zero. You are expecting her to react one way and she's reacting in a different way when it comes to things. Try to remember that the less pressure you put on her, the more time she has to face those issues/demons. Putting pressure on her is going to: 1) prolong her journey and 2) push her further away from you.
Dig deeper for patience, and I do mean dig deeper for patience. Keep the focus on you and your family and find things to occupy your mind, body and soul. You didn't break her, therefore you can't fix her. There is an old saying I use from time to time and I want to post it to you today "a watched pot never boils". Stop looking for signs that she's coming out of her crisis...she's got a ways to go.
Gordie...take care of you and allow the man upstairs to take care of her.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I fully respect you trying to the "right" thing. But mirroring her I think is only doing what you feel you are supposed to do.
Gordie, what will make you feel good? You mirroring her actions is attachment. How about you lead with what feels good and right to you?
Like JOb said, you need to take care of you. I think you spend so much time trying to do what you feel you are supposed to do, and in that you become wholly attached and lose yourself.
Take this as a time to find and nurture Gordie. Feed your soul.
Wow, Gordie. I understand why you are conflicted. I’m glad others are chiming in with good advice because I would feel like you do. Giving you the phone password and saying ILY are things that would begin to break down my walls too.
When I had an unexpectedly good conversation with my wife recently I accepted it too easy and she slid backwards. I now see it as a good sign that when she has moments of clarity, it is our marriage and family that seem important to her. Having said that, it is too hard on me emotionally to let my guard down every time she has a moment of clarity. I think that if you let your guard down too early, it will be much harder to get back to where you are now. Where you are in this is just as important as where she is. Don’t forget to consider yourself in this thing.
I understand not wanting to push her away when it seems she is drawing nearer. I also understand wanting to make sure you aren’t expecting a specific behavior if it might actually look a little different coming from your W. The thing is, you are still trying to bend yourself backwards to try and accept her. I think it is her that needs to do that for you. When I was too quick to accept the convo with my W, I realized in retrospect that she said things in that convo that were signs she wasn’t ready and I overlooked them because of the things she said that I did want to hear. Having said that, although your W is showing you signs that you like, is there anything you might be overlooking because of that?
All this thinking/anylizing is going to drive us crazy. Try to take a break from it if you can. She is making moves in the right direction, and if you let her, she might keep moving in that direction. That doesn’t mean you should be cold to her. You love your W or you wouldn’t still be here. She knows that. So, accept her positive signs as just that...positive signs. Not signs of her being out of the woods, just signs that she is moving in that direction.
There is no simple answer to your last question but To me hthe fact you are asking could mean you are too attached to saving your M, and fear doing the wrong thing. There is no right thing or wrong thing. OK there are but don't put so much pressure on yourself.
A piece of good advice is to ask yourself regularly what do you want to do. Apply this to simple and more important decisions. Remove the pressure of determining what is best to improve your M.
Got to go.
Best wishes. I keep you in my thoughts
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
she talks about the future? Is she sweeping her MLC under the rug. Does she talk about what happened and why? If you question her does she huff and puff and avoid answering.
How do you honestly feel about what she did? Could you just accept it and move forward? Without the answers you need.
Are you ready to trust her or will you have many doubts if she goes out alone or with friends? Will you give her the 3rd degree when she gets back home? How will she react to that?
You see, she needs to be ready to get that from you. Trust needs to be rebuilt. Giving you her phone password may only mean that. She could be using email to communicate.
Therapy. of course but she needs individual therapy before couple therapy. That alone is time. So she can figure it all out.
I'd hate for you both to play happy home and MLC pokes its ugly head out again.
M51 XW43 (38 at bd) BD1 MAY 30 2015 BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text moved out Aug 2 2015 left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20) Her divorce Final July 26 2016 Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
you have to choose to go "from this day forward", like the vows.
I always thought those words were crucial. Plus, no marriage lasts that doesn't include a boatload of forgiveness given and asked for.
Not saying you are there yet, by any means.
But if there's no way you can ever imagine reconciling, I mean, no offense,
then why are you here?
I'm asking. YOU have to know what your ideal outcome would be, and then figure out how you'll deal with your other, possibly more realistic options.
But you need to imagine a scenario in which you could work things through ----- or just decide NO WAY and end any thoughts of it. As in, "the end."
Hang in there.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
