[HelenaJ]

One of the things I could use some help with right now is my demeanor and attitude toward H. Given that I am very much in the grieving stage of our R and am still processing everything he's said to me....I am torn between giving myself permission to feel what I feel versus faking it. I've been cold and non-responsive to H....it's such a messed up head game he's created because I feel like if I'm cordial and pleasant, then I'm giving him exactly what he wants, which is for us to "pretend". I don't want to pretend, this is so messed up. But I also don't want to be a cold and bitter woman. I want to take the high road, I want to be mature about the way I handle myself, but I hate what he's doing and I hate that what he wants is probably exactly what I have to do in order to be the best person I can be. I feel like he has me on a puppet string and I am his source of entertainment

[Olya]

"I have learned to NOT need you as much..."

I've heard that exact line. To me, it always sounds like a disappointed child lashing out at his mom the first time he finds out that mom isn't perfect. (How dare she!?)

Don't go down that rabbit hole. All that waits for you at the end is "it's too late now."

If he has learned not to need you, then why not give him the opportunity to show it?

There is a finite number of things that you must do for your kids - they are not a part of this. As for everything else, just let the grass grow! See how long he can tolerate it.

[Olya]

Don't be cold and bitter! Be a happy woman. He wants you to fake cordiality - he's not expecting actual happiness. Make sure he sees that happiness.

[HelenaJ]

It is me that has learned not to need him. Me that has figured out ways around what he is and is not willing to do for me and/or our M. You can’t force someone to do something or to meet your needs. I’ve learned not to depend on it. And it’s not a line. It’s the truth.

[Olya]

Sorry, I misread.

You have to do what you have to do to keep yourself from falling apart. There are two ways of doing it. One, in my opinion, is healthy. The other, not so much.

The first, which looks like what you're doing, is to pull back but leave open the opportunity to reconnect emotionally and go back to a place where you can once again depend on and look to your partner.

The second is to decide that once your partner has let you down, no matter how slight, there's no going back - everything will be too little and too late. (And that's the situation I am in)

The conversations you two are having seem to be centered primarily on what you have done or haven't done and how he feels about it. Next time he tells you that he doesn't feel like you need him, let him know, politely, that if this is what he wants from you, he has to be someone you can trust and look to when you have a problem.

[HelenaJ]

No worries, the same advice applies either way I suppose-if I've learned to not need him, then prove it I guess.

The second is to decide that once your partner has let you down, no matter how slight, there's no going back - everything will be too little and too late. (And that's the situation I am in)

This is also the situation I'm in if you consider it from H's perspective.

The conversations you two are having seem to be centered primarily on what you have done or haven't done and how he feels about it.

True because he constantly brings it up. So I either must sit quietly or apologize incessantly. The only other option is not to participate in the conversation at all.

*******
I've told H before that I feel like I can't be vulnerable with him because I feel like he uses what I say against me...specifically, he uses my weaknesses against me. I was thinking today about a conversation we had back in October when things took the most major downturn...I was starting to get extremely annoyed with the way H was withholding emotionally and that's when he was telling me I couldn't expect a fairy tale marriage. I told him that I can't live alone emotionally so if that's how he's saying things are going to be, then that's not ok with me. He started accusing me of cheating, saying that if I can't live alone emotionally, then something else must be going on. So, fast forward to March when he was out of the country when he decided to come out and tell me that he was 100% leaving me emotionally. Never be a couple again, he'd never give me his heart again, we'd never go anywhere socially again and we'd never be intimate again.

This could be a coincidence. Or I could be right, he's using what I tell him as ammunition to hurt me as much as humanly possible. I'm asking myself, does it matter? It kind of does because it changes the type of person I'm dealing with. If it's a coincidence that it IS possible he could change his mind and we could fix things. If it's not a coincidence, then he's got some personality issues that are most likely never going to change. And I'm wasting my time here.

[ForGump]

I like this quote:

"The victim of infidelity is not necessarily the victim of the marriage."
-- E**** P*****

Sounds like there was a lot of dysfunction in the marriage, aside from issues of infidelity. You're not going to fix that unless both spouses are willing.

Be sad if that's how you feel. I don't think that precludes being kind and thoughtful to another human being. But I think being authentic trumps everything else.

[HelenaJ]

I am very sad. I’m also very angry. It’s hard to be kind but I know I need to try harder and I will. I just need to give myself some time to have these natural reactions....when someone hurts you, I really don’t think it’s normal to bounce right back to a place of kindness. It’s like someone smacking you in the face and then you asking what they’d like you to make for dinner tonight you know? I need some time.

Bad interaction this morning. I woke up to this text:
So apparently <son’s> track meeting is today. GREAT communication. You just continue to prove why I can’t trust you. That is just a horrible thing for you to do and I thought you could rise above it for your children but you can’t. I now know that I can’t trust you as a parent either. I will adjust. It just [censored].

You guys. The meeting is not today. He must have misunderstood something my son told him. At first I was calm and I was invoking Olya lol. Thinking ok, keep it simple. So I sent him a screen shot of the text conversation with the coach that JUST happened yesterday while he was out of town and the coach clearly said she’d be in touch to let me know when the meeting would be. I also said the following
If the meeting is today, that is news to me. Here is the last communication I received and it was just yesterday. I planned to let you know and have <son> write out his thoughts and points. The rest of the stuff you said is pretty much BS so I won’t bother addressing it. Actually, not pretty much, total. You’re doing a great job of rising above it by the way (eyeroll).

I should have just left it alone but I just got madder and madder. I went out and woke him up and told him everything I had just texted. At one point I said “poor you” and he said “I’m not the one being a victim here” and I said then why all the texts talking about heartbreaks and betrayals?? Such BS.”

This is a great example of why I should *not* have in person conversations with him, with the written word I am more careful. When I’m angry, stuff comes out of my mouth. This was probably a huge setback. Then I sent him this text

Ok you really got to me. My husband has told me our M is over bc of repeated betrayals (that I didn’t realize were happening...men vying for my attention?? I didn’t see it that way but I CAN see it that way and would have so gladly and willingly adjusted so that it never happened again) and it’s taken everything in me everyday since October to rise above it for our kids. Your pride and arrogance have destroyed our family which was the one golden thing we had and caused you to give up on a woman who loved you very deeply. You’ve REPEATEDLY blamed me for EVERYthing that has ever been wrong with this M but then on the flip side claim you’re not being a victim. You’ve completely destroyed not only my heart but my trust in you as well. The way you’ve treated me is damn near unforgivable and will have a lasting impact on me as a person. And now you’re coming at me as a Mother. So yeah, that got to me. It was like sacred territory. Or so I thought. It’s crushing.
**********

I know I said waaay too much. Ugh.

[artista]

Frankly, i think you put up with way too much... i am sure you are going to get 2x4's from others, but not from me... i loathe your H... he is AWFUL!!! i don't know you you stomach him...

i think you are right to let him know you don't trust him... to call him out on his hypocrisy...

i have said it before, HE IS THE CAUSE of your family's disfunction... you are willing to fix it... he is FIXED on NOT FIXING it... i think he is sick and scary... he is of the "if i can't be happy, nobody can be happy." which is not too far from, "if i can't have you, nobody can have you." he is abusive and scary... and because of that, i would not give two cents for his opinions... he is twisted... his thinking is twisted...

i guess i should not be the one giving you advice... there is no way i have it in me to tell you to be kind to him... if you were my friend, my sister, my niece, i would tell you to go DARK... NO CONTACT...

honestly, i am glad you called the master manipulator out on his $h1+ because there is nothing you could say to him that is going to change him toward you... he will find fault in everything you do... yuck... what a life...

[Vanilla]

I am going to be very straight with you Helena as far as I can.

You are unwell with complaints that currently are undiagnosed. Your H wants to control you and the M and your whole family.

He drinks heavily which you find it difficult to protest about.

You say you feel like a marionette.


If you think you have PTSD then it is likely you do.

This has all the hallmarks of an abuse situation, only you will know. All of the above are key red markers for me. You may already know this but consider your H may be decompensating. This happens to abusers as they get older and find certain things slipping.

The guilt you trick because of past behaviour is just that, a guilt and shame you sleight of hand. It's about control and that's an easy pedal to push to make you stall. I doubt this is above you kissing a guy all those years ago, he is doing it because it presses your buttons for guilt and shame. That is control.

If it is then you are in company and not alone. But it's a dangerous place to be especially if your health is sliding. This is a great concern to me. If I have assessed that your H isn't just a wayward cheater type with rotten entitlement issues but is a control monster then I suggest you seek abuse help IRL.

I am going to post links to the abuse thread, because abuse is about control and not just for those with black eyes. Please take my thinking very seriously indeed. It's worth a look even if it's to eliminate it.

V