Newbie In Need Of Guidance #2

[rminer]

Ok, I did what you said and asked my W out. After a little hemming and hawing, she said yes. That was three days ago.

In the morning she was not in the best of moods when I got home from taking D18 to school. The night before we were talking while watching TV and everything was still fine, so I wasn’t sure what would cause the sudden mood change.

Her mood stayed about the same the rest of the day until after I went to pick D18 up. On the way home she told me that she and D21 were going to an Honors Banquet for D21 and that she was receiving an award. About an hour later my W sees D18 and D21 walking down the driveway to leave and asks where they were going dressed up. D14 tells her. Of course my W got extremely mad asks why we were not invited. I had already asked D21 about it and did not want to tell my W why, so I just told her that I had found out about it when I picked up D18, so I didn’t know.

A short while later both my W and I had to go pick up a vehicle. On the way she was still upset about not being invited and was venting about it, saying that the kids are “unappreciative” of anything she does. This went on the entire drive.

I had been thinking of asking my W to dinner since you suggested we do something together and this would be the last day for several weeks that we could possibly go out. I was a bit nervous about it, but about a mile from our destination I mustered up the courage to ask her to dinner.

The first thing out of her mouth was “What?! You want me to go somewhere with my hair looking like this? Where to, McDonald’s? I can’t go anywhere.” I made a joke about being rejected and told her I just thought maybe she might like to go to dinner and she said yes, “but we have to go home to fix my hair first.”

Once we got home she immediately started getting ready to go and I went to start a fire (did I mention we heat with wood?). An hour later we were finally ready to go. She had put on a nice pair of black jeans, nice blouse, hair done, perfume, makeup, just like when she goes out with her friends – or on a date.

We decide on a place to go and she wasn’t overly talkative on the way keeping it to small talk. We arrive, I open the door for her and she makes a comment about how men don’t do that for women anymore and thanks me.

We were seated and my W immediately orders a Margarita. I wasn’t planning on drinking, but I decided I needed something to loosen me up, so I ordered one too.

We started out talking about the menu and what we wanted. She brought up a Mexican restaurant that we always went to when we were dating in High School. I smiled and reminded her about the dish she always ordered and she added “and I always gave you my beans.” We talked about that place for a few minutes and got back to ordering.

Once we ordered she started talking. It started out with small talk until I asked about one of her friends who is having marriage problems. I have mentioned her before – the one who’s H is treating her exactly like my W is treating me (minus the A) and my W says needs to divorce him but always has an excuse why she can’t. We talked about that for a little bit and the conversation naturally starts changing topics.

We were talking about S8 and I mentioned that he asked me to teach him how to ride his bike this summer. We live where there are no sidewalks, so he has had a hard time getting the hang of it. I said that I would need to take him to the park where it would be easier. My W agreed and said that she would like to have a bike. I told her I would as well, so maybe we should get some and we could go for rides, she said it was a good idea.

For quite a while we were talking and laughing about all sorts of different things having really good conversation. It was fun.

At some point, and I can’t remember what we were talking about, she said “If we are still together.” This is where the R talk started. I asked if she was thinking about D and she said “I don’t know.” She said that we don’t want the same things and I replied that I think we do. “I want to travel and do things, but you don’t” was her answer and I said we have talked about doing that after the kids are grown and our parents are gone (besides, we don’t have the money and she knows this). She also said that we never talk about the future and that we can’t seem to get the house finished.

She went on to say that I don’t seem to like who she is now and that I never want to be with her. I asked why she thought I have always sat in the living room instead of another room. “So you can cuddle with D14” was her response (D14 likes to sit on the couch and put her head on my shoulder when watching TV lately). I then asked why I would ask her out if I didn’t like being with her. She said “I thought you were just being nice.”

The R talk kept going for a few more minutes and the conversation started to switch back to more basic things. Then the alcohol started catching up to her and she became much more loose with what she was saying.

She started telling me about Facebook and how when she changed her profile picture she started getting friend requests from men she did not know and how one that she did accept now messages her and professes his love for her.

My W went on to tell me about the things she does when she goes out and where she goes with her enabling friend. She said “You think I spend a lot of money when I go out, but I only buy one or two drinks. The rest I get for free.” I ask how and she tells me that the bartenders give them to her or someone will buy them for her. I say “So you flirt to get free drinks.” “Yeah, why not?” is how she answered.

She told me a bit more of her evenings out and all but said that she gets high now too. That in itself doesn’t bother me because I’ve never been against it, but it illustrates just how much she has embraced the “Party Girl” lifestyle. Six months ago she would not have even thought of doing any of this. You are right, sandi, she is not the girl I married.

She went on to tell me about the tattoos she is going to get. I knew about two of them – one for her deceased brother and one with D21 (who now says that she is not getting at tattoo with my W because of this sitch). She then shows me a picture of a tattoo she is going to get with her enabling friend and where she wants to get it. I don’t particularly like tattoos and she knows this. I don’t tell her not to do it, but I don’t sound overly enthused either. She went on to tell me that she is getting all three of them and that she is almost 50 years old so she can do what she wants. She also essentially said that she is doing it because I once told her that “she wasn’t going to get a tattoo” and that when someone tells her she can’t do something she is going to do it. For clarification, I have never told her she couldn’t get a tattoo. I have just told her that I am not a fan of them but I understood one for her brother and D21.

I think she could tell talking about her bar nights and tattoos was starting to aggravate me, so she changed the subject and asked if I had told S8 that he couldn’t quit the organization he is in. I said “no” and asked if he had told her that he wanted to quit. My W said he hadn’t, but she had told him that he couldn’t quit because he said that he liked karate better (they have conflicted with each other a few times lately). I didn’t tell her this, but S8 has told his siblings he wants to quit because of the OM.

From there it progressed in to general things about the organization and the OM, but not in the context of the A.

She started telling me about how his son wants to quit, but the OM will not let him and how the son has not shown up to any of the meetings for the kids his age, which is upsetting and embarrassing the OM since he is the assistant leader there. She kept talking about this for a few minutes and then started talking about what they had planned for next year. This was supposed to be the OM’s last year as leader, so I stated that I thought he was stepping down to take over at the higher level. My W said he was supposed to, but “I am making him stay.” I asked why and she said that there is no one to take over and that the organization would dissolve if the OM didn’t. She said that they can’t get anyone to volunteer for lower positions let alone leader, so “she made him stay.” I asked if it has been made clear to all of the parents that help is needed because no one has ever mentioned to me that they need volunteers (even before the A). My W said that it has been made clear to everyone so I pointed out to her that I am there more than most parents, so if I didn’t know I’m sure there are many others who don’t either.

During this conversation my W was pretty tipsy and started telling me things about the OM and his family that were way too personal for their relationship to be strictly professional. At one point my W called the OM’s W “a real piece of work.” This was the third time I have had confirmation that the OM is married.

We had been at the restaurant for almost three hours at this point and they were closing. We left and had to go to the store to pick up a few things my W needed for dinner the next day. On the way the conversation continued about volunteers and how no one will help. My W said that they needed someone to run one of their main events next year or else it will not happen and once again said that the organization would dissolve if OM didn’t stay on. I asked about time commitments and what exactly would be involved and the requirements. I said that depending on the requirements, I might be willing to take over as leader. She told me, but made it clear that the OM was staying for the next year.

When we were at the store we continued talking about things. Still well under the influence of the Margaritas, she made the comment that “we could just have an open marriage so I can get what I want and you can get what you want.” I didn’t say anything but I did give her the “over my dead body” glare. She laughed and told me that I should see the look on my face.

When we got home and were walking in to the house, I told her that I had fun with her. She didn’t answer and started talking to S8 who greeted us at the door. I figured she was ignoring the comment, so I didn’t repeat it. I went to the basement to load the furnace, she went to change her clothes. By the time I came upstairs, my W was sleeping on the couch.

One thing that I did not fit in to the story above is that I did compliment her appearance. When I did, she said “Thanks, but I know you hate my hair straightened,” which I do (my W has beautiful hair and she looks SO much better with it wavy). I replied “I do prefer it not straightened, but it still looks nice.” She then said that she gets a lot of compliments when she straightens her hair, so I told that her hair is beautiful and she has always gotten compliments on it no matter how she wears it. She smiled.

Overall, it was a fun evening. I spent four hours with my W alone for the first time in over five months and actually shared ideas and got to know each other a little better. I tried to make it all about her and let my W do most of the talking.

Whether it was a success, I’m not sure. She showed the rebellion I have heard about here, but also opened up a little bit so I don’t know what to think at this point.

The next day we had a very long text conversation about our R. I won’t give the blow by blow on it because of length, but I will hit the highlights.

While I was at work, my W sends a text to me - a one liner with a grocery store item. I asked if it was what she forgot the night before and she said “Yep.” I reply and she comes back with another one word answer. I ask if she is feeling a little less stressed than the day before. Another one word answer. I then ask if she is not feeling very talkative today. She replies “Just trying to figure out how to be happy again.”

I told her that I know she is. I added that she didn’t respond the night before, but I hope she enjoyed dinner. She asked “Respond to what?” I told her that I had said that I had fun with her when we were walking in to the house, but she didn’t respond. My W said that she “didn’t realize” and said that “I did enjoy going out with you, but things are different.” She added that she was going to thank me but fell asleep before I came upstairs and then said “thank you.”

I told her that I was glad she did and agreed that things are different, but we can figure this out if we want to. I also said that I wasn’t putting pressure on her, but if she wanted to do more things together I would be willing to. I then commented on the night before and that the Margaritas were stronger than average.

My W then said that she has always wanted to spend time with me but she thought I was tired of being with her after all this time. She then replied to the comments about the night before.

I then told her that she was the only one I have ever wanted to spend time with and that she and the kids are the most important things to me. Another comment about the night before saying we should go back again when we want a little tequila.

She then said that for so many years the house is where I spent all of my time and agrees we should go back.

I acknowledge that and tell her that I regret the house more than she will ever know. I go on to tell her that my only reason for working on it so much is that whenever I complained about it she would tell me that the house is exactly what she wanted and that she loves it. My only thought was making her happy with it. I then told her that I secretly dreamt about walking away from it or it being destroyed so we could.

She then told me that the place she lives isn’t important and that she just wanted to spend time with her family. My W went on to say that she resents the house because it took me away from her and the kids and that it seems that we won’t ever get away from that house.

I comment back that I thought the house was what she wanted, so I have killed myself trying to give it to her. All I ever wanted to do was make her happy.

She replied that she has been trying to tell me for years that the house is killing us but felt I wouldn’t/couldn’t walk away at any cost.

I then said that I have been trying to tell her the same thing. We haven’t heard what each other has been saying and that no house is worth my family.

She then said that she “hopes these revelations are not too late.” I told her that I hoped too and that if we take the time to figure it out, we still have a chance.

My W then said that she really doesn’t know and that she gave up a long time ago. She added that we have both changed a lot, that she feels I don’t like who she is now and that I only want and love the girl from long ago.

I replied that everyone changes and that is what keeps it interesting and that I want to love her for who she is. I also said that what I don’t like is not being included.

She explained that she stopped asking me to go places because I was always working or worried about money. She started feeling rejected. She then asked me if I wanted to go to a movie that night with her and D14.

I validated this and told her I never rejected her and that I was sorry I made her feel that way and accepted the movie invite.

She told me that she felt the house was the death of what we had together. She understood that I wanted to make everything good for her and the kids, but she started to feel I was too proud to let it go – that I would rather have the house than her.

I told her that it wasn’t pride. It was my commitment to her and not letting her down. I never wanted anything more than her.

My W then said “Maybe if we had talked more we would have understood each other more.”

I agreed and said that we need to stop speaking in code.

She agreed to that, but said “So much has happened between us I don’t know how to fix this, or if it can be fixed.”

I acknowledged she feels this way and told her I don’t know for sure how to fix it, but I do know that if we don’t try, we can’t. Communicating like this is a good start though. I then asked “Isn’t that part of why this all happened in the first place?”

She agreed it was.

I replied that if we know that and we stop going down that road, it should open the door to figuring out the rest.

She said that maybe things are too broken to be fixed.

I said “Only if one of us wants them to be” and that it will take both of us.

My W came back with “I’m very skeptical you know. I had completely given up.”

I told her I know she is, but now that we each know some of what the other is thinking, we have a place to start. Neither one of us has ever given up easily on anything and our family is worth fighting for.

She then said that she has put up so many walls because she doesn’t want to be hurt anymore and that she “thought we were going to be divorced for sure, that it was just a matter of time.”

I agreed that she had built walls and that they were very high. I don’t think either of us wanted to hurt the other, I was sorry for hurting her and that I wished I had known I was. I went on to say that we now know the root cause of the problems, so we can avoid them in the future. I added that maybe it was time to take down some of the walls and start to build something new.

My W replied that she had built them so high “so I could block you out entirely so I couldn’t be hurt any more” and that she had started to live life without me because “I thought that’s what I was going to have to do.”

I told her that “I know your reasons” and that we don’t have to live life without each other if we don’t want to, nothing is set in stone and that I think there is something left that we can work with.

As I said, it was a very long conversation – it took most of the day. Other things were said, but those are the major highlights. At times my W sounded to me like there was no chance, and other times she sounded like she was willing to consider working on things. Her verbiage changed as we talked to sounding more positive to me, but I could just be reading in to it.

I probably said way more than I should have, but I was finally getting her to open up a little bit and tell me what was on her mind. It turns out it was in large part me working on that house so much just like you said.

When I got home that night she was kind of quite. We went to the movie and I sat next to her with D14 on my other side (D14 made sure we sat that way). We talked some while we were out, but not a ton. Last night when I got home, she was back to talking to me like she has been for the past few weeks.

So what do you think of the two interactions?

What should be my next move?