Your WH lying cheating scumbag ways are not your fault. His horrible choices show who he is. I have no truck with dirt bag cheaters.
Even if you were bald, picked your nose and ate it and put on 10 muffin tops, this is nothing to do with you. Not ever. If he wants to dip his wick in an OW that is him.
Of course we all have things to work on, for us. That is where your goals for you are a great way to start.
In an earlier post you kept saying I need to this and I need to that. Please don't, ok, he needs to stop cheating, you need do nothing.
Please use the word choose, I choose to X or y. So much more powerful to do.
So let's get your goals really honed to things you want to choose to do.
AS is great at this:
Lose 10 pounds in 2 months" IS a goal, and it's one easily tracked and measured. Or run an 8 minute mile by the end of two months and a 7 minute mile by the end of four months. So refine your goals:
"Consider a doctorate" Not a goal, you can "consider" it whenever. If your goal is to attain a doctorate then set that as a long-term goal and set some benchmarks in-between, such as "apply to college by Spring 2019" or whatever your plan is.
Yes absolutely. Use the active voice in the present tense and add emotion with a real reason.
Such as I proudly accept my doctorate and I made a brilliant application in May 2018. Look how far I have come to become a professor.
"Publish or do research or presentations" Better, but assign a deadline to that and be more specific.
I have written 10 amazing research papers in my chosen field and they were published to great accord.
"Eventually (8 months or so from now) possibly think about a new job" Thinking about it isn't a goal. You're probably already thinking about it. Maybe put "find a new job" on your long term goal list if it's 8 months out. Add benchmarks such as "investigate job options" with dates assigned.
I am outlining my goal job and matched my skills. I identify six companies I have sent my perfect CV to and I am now living my dreams.
"Get fit. Become a healthy weight and maintain it." Good. Now figure out how much you want to lose and set a deadline for it. If that deadline is 3 months out then set benchmark deadlines in between. For example- make "lose 20 pounds in 3 months" your goal and then break it down into weekly and monthly benchmarks.
"Find joy. Have fun." Not goals. Figure out what goals you need to achieve for those to happen. Maybe losing weight will make you happy, and taking your dog on nature walks will bring you some fun.
"Spend more time in nature." Be more specific, like "Take my dog for a nature hike twice a week."
"Develop my friendships." Be more specific. "Contact Sue, Lisa and Joanne and have lunch with each of them." Set dates for this.
----------------------' Over to you.....
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Mybest, I read your first post again and tried to absorb it. When my husband first left he also asked for a six month trial separation, and asked for the same when he left this time. My husband also said he's no longer attracted to me when he left the first time. My husband also faced external stressors with his residency program and family immigrating. He also believes he did his best and 'worked' on the marriage, apparently forcing himself to stay with his unattractive wife and suffering silently. Who knows what these men consider to be 'working on the marriage,' but it's different than what I think it is.
There are all these similarities and it turned out my husband left due to other women. I wouldn't have known if I didn't check. I'd be just like you, wondering what's going on and blindly trying to cope.
All three marriage counselors I've seen over the past ten years encouraged me to investigate behind-the-scenes. I also believe married people shouldn't have anything to hide. If my husband ever wanted to check my phone or read my e-mails I'd be happy for him to do so (except maybe now since I've talked to so many people about him since he left). Therefore I've checked the phone bill, checked my husband's accounts, and closely studied contradictions between what he said and did. It was very easy each time to find out he was cheating. When he left this time it may not have been directly due to cheating, but rather the aftermath from his last affair that didn't get resolved, but now he's cheating again.
I share that information because you may benefit a lot from accessing information about your husband to find out what's actually happening. You can start with the easy things such as checking your shared phone bill, checking his browsing history and e-mails if you can log into his computer, taking a look inside his car when he's sleeping, and maybe even driving past his workplace a few times to see if his car is parked there at the times when he says he's working. If none of that reveals anything you can try to check his phone when he's in the shower or sleeping.
I'd suggest doing this as a next step, simply because you're currently so hurt and confused. Discovering an affair would bring a lot of clarity to your situation.
Affairs are very controversial. Some people say they'll divorce right away if they catch their spouse having an affair. Others will keep working on the marriage.
My husband came back after his first affair in a dramatic way. He said he'd kill himself, he's so depressed, can't live without his family, begged to come home and promised we'd work on fixing everything as soon as he finished his residency. At that time I was so happy he came back and I somewhat believed he'd learned his lesson, but the marriage never went back to normal. You can read all those details on my thread.
So, your husband may want to see how his affair goes and keep you waiting for him at the same time, so he can come home when the affair ends and the fun is over, or so he can buy time to see how he feels about you later.
If your husband is from the Middle East I wouldn't focus too much on your weight. Men from those countries like women with curves, as a generalization.
If you don't find any sign of an affair, perhaps you can update us here and we can re-consider everything.
There's a lot more I could write about how a man might try to hide an affair, why Muslim men feel entitled to cheat, the types of lies they tell to cover up their actions, and how they view you, their wife, vs. women they are just using for fun and entertainment. I'll try to write more about it if you do find your husband having an affair.
It's great that you're working on all those other things for yourself and benefitting from DB and from your individual counselor. This is a painful and devastating situation to be in. You can see how badly I've been affected in my thread. I loved my husband so much. I'm sure you love yours too.
1. GAL - I'll think about this and work on some more measurable goals. I haven't had the chance to think about what might be realistic, but will do so by the weekend. So, I guess my first GAL is to have a few in the format you all suggest by the end of the weekend.
2. Infidelity vs. A. -- I understand the point AS is making, and it's something I've given a lot of thought to. In many ways, H's willingness to walk away and to leave rather than to communicate and fix things as they are happening, as well as our possible fundamental difference in what constitutes a MR is one of the hardest parts of this process. I take our vows seriously. I don't think a MR is something you do until it gets hard and then you leave it -- to me, a D is the absolute worst-case, last-case scenario. H has, in essence, already practiced infidelity by being wiling to walk away. This is a pain and a situation that will take time to heal and I also need to see real change towards this approach if we are able to recon.
That being said, I am not convinced there is a physical or emotional affair with someone else happening. And -- as I said, and as I worked out with my IC yesterday... I want us to reconcile. I cannot know for sure if he is having an A -- he won't admit it if he is, and no low-hanging fruit is there to show me he is. I can either turn into someone I have no desire to become and snoop (which I don't want because it's not who I am). Or I can say honestly "sure, the possibility exists. But in this situation, he has said it is not the case, I do not have any proof that he is, and so I choose to operate under the assumption that he is not cheating." To me, this is important because the damage I would do to us if I assumed the opposite and he wasn't cheating is pretty bad. I don't want to let him turn me into a snooper. It's not worth it.
So -- I am continuing to operate under the assumption that he is not cheating, with the caveat that it could be happening...
I feel like this will frustrate some of you. Sorry. It's my process. I have to do it my way, in a way that feels authentic to myself. Right now, this is how I can do that. Feel free to call me naive. I'd rather be naive than turn into someone I don't want to be. My values are that I am not someone who snoops. I'm not letting this situation change that.
3. Detachment and Sandi's rules (not pursuing) are incredible. INCREDIBLE. Yesterday, I sent him a text from work just letting him know my plans (walking the dog; girls' night). He said "I'll walk the dog with you."
I came home, and he sort of prevaricated around going on the walk. I told him if he didn't want to come, he didn't have to, so he stayed home. He kept saying "I'll come. No, I'm tired. No, I'll go with you." I told him it was up to him, but that he didn't feel like he should have to go (so he didn't). He did come up to me and give me a large, warm, good/sincere hug (usually I initiate these).
When I got back from the walk, he and I talked a bit (he initiated it). He said he was second-guessing his decision to leave since things had been going so well lately. He said the idea of shopping for furniture for his new place didn't seem fun anymore since it had only been fun in the past when we did it together. He said that last night, he had a dream that on the day he moved out, I was already out on a date with someone else. He was sad, lost, torn.
It took every ounce of my willpower NOT to say "then stay home!" But I didn't. Not because of the "rules" but because I know if he stays without time, change, healing, processing, and work... we'll be stuck in the same cycle. I deserve to be free from that cycle.
Instead, I said: - Well, you know I don't think this is the best decision, but it's what you say you need so I respect that. - Don't let my wellbeing stress you out. I'll be fine. - I know I had considered helping you shop for furniture, but since you need the space and distance, I think it makes sense for me not to be a part of that process. If you need space, the last thing you need is to think of us every time you see your furniture. - I told him I can't read his mind, and that I can't tell him what to do. If he feels like he needs the space, then he needs it. I told him that he is the only one who can make those decisions, and that I'd respect them. - I validated his feelings when he said he was stressed out and couldn't sleep. "You are making a big change to the unknown. Of course it is stressful. It's normal for it to be stressful."
I feel like he was wanting me to tell him to stay. But I didn't. And that was all genuine.
I left for my girls' night and asked him if he'd mind starting the dishwasher when he left for work. When I came home and saw he'd done it, I sent a quick "thanks for starting the washer" text.
He responded. "You're welcome. I'm glad I remembered. I miss you."
This morning, when he came home from work and I was still asleep, he cuddled me and stroked my hair in bed as I was waking up.
But, even more important than all this is that I actually feel self-respect around this now. I feel powerful in that I have agency. I honestly feel like this is the only approach that respects us both. It respects his need for space, and it respects myself as a valued, worthy, strong woman who will be okay regardless of what happens; I am a woman who doesn't need to be with someone who doesn't love and commit to me fully. And all this can exist simultaneously with the hope of a healthy and productive recon.
So-- yeah. Despite all the "he is cheating" stuff (that may push me away from this site), it's been a relatively good few days.
So-- yeah. Despite all the "he is cheating" stuff (that may push me away from this site), it's been a relatively good few days.
Why would that push you from the site? Everyone is reading what you are typing and questioning if you are sure he isn't in an A. The only way that would push you from the site is if you wanted to remain in denial about the possibility.
Let me ask you this mybest, two years ago would you have thought your husband would ask for a separation and move out of the house? WASs/WSs are capable of anything and you have to be prepared for the worst. The reason we are suggesting he may be in an A is to help you mentally prepare, so that if that bomb drops you can follow DB techniques instead of falling into the usual pattern of behavior that will only drive him further away.
So while you may still get responders asking about a possible A and floating the possibility, you shouldn't let that push you from the site. Unless that is a threat hoping those of us that have raised the possibility to back off? In which case that shows level of manipulation even here on this board that isn't very healthy.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You are going to get tough feedback here, as we call them - 2x4s. It is done because people care and want you to succeed in your endeavors. You are free to take it or leave it obviously, but your situation is hardly unique and there aren't any exceptions that won't apply to you.
I wanted to give you a bit more of a longer response, and I might later when I have some time.
Just know that DB is counter intuitive and every fiber of your body and mind is telling you to do the opposite - don't give him space, shower him with love and affection, do everything for him, be a model partner etc etc. Don't do that.
You seriously need to stop pursuing him, telling him what you're doing, and engaging in relationship conversations. Please read up on the validation cheat sheet to see how you can validate and engage in conversations when he brings things up.
About the A - there may or may not be an A, but don't discount the possibility is all what we're saying. Your H's values have diverged from yours and they are capable of a lot of things you thought previously impossible. If you don't believe me, go read up on threads here and the archives and see what other people's partners have put them through. You situation is hardly special.
I would take a huge step back and just focus on yourself and your goals for now. Leave him alone. Follow Sandi's guidelines for a little bit and then tweak what works and what doesn't work.
It's not meant as a manipulation technique. I am fully aware that nobody would mind if I stopped posting. We all have our own things to deal with. I appreciate the time and energy people put into responding, but am under no delusion that I could "manipulate" people here out of bringing something up.
I just don't understand the vehemence of the insistence that it "must" be true. I am totally on-board with preparing for that possibility -- that's smart. I am not comfortable with people here calling H a lying cheating scumbag. I want things to work with him, and at this point, even with all the intensity of the BD, etc., it is important for me to give him the benefit of the doubt until I know otherwise.
Did I think he would ask for a separation? No. I didn't expect it. I expected that if things were bad, he'd address them in a more honest and forthcoming way.
Not saying he's in an A right now, but you already have proof that he is totally comfortable and okay stepping outside the marriage. He's already done it and being 'lost' is not a good reason. He's lost right now correct?
You want to give him the benefit of doubt - fine. That still doesn't change your approach to DBing and following Sandi's rules. Just start there and get emotionally and mentally grounded.
It's not meant as a manipulation technique. I am fully aware that nobody would mind if I stopped posting. We all have our own things to deal with. I appreciate the time and energy people put into responding, but am under no delusion that I could "manipulate" people here out of bringing something up.
I just don't understand the vehemence of the insistence that it "must" be true. I am totally on-board with preparing for that possibility -- that's smart. I am not comfortable with people here calling H a lying cheating scumbag. I want things to work with him, and at this point, even with all the intensity of the BD, etc., it is important for me to give him the benefit of the doubt until I know otherwise.
Did I think he would ask for a separation? No. I didn't expect it. I expected that if things were bad, he'd address them in a more honest and forthcoming way.
You like you have a healthy outlook on it then. I was just a bit taken aback by the threat to leave the site. But you have the exact attitude you should have. Don't assume, but don't ignore the possibility. That is the smart way to proceed.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Today, I am angry. I think it's because I didn't work out yesterday. I need to hit the gym HARD tonight to work off the anger. And it's because I can't get the idea of an A out of my mind. I am angry at him for an A even if he hasn't had one. I am angry at him for putting me through this. I am angry at him for how much energy detachment, not pursuing, and following S's rules is and how exhausting it can be. I am angry at myself for having pursued for so long and how pathetic I let myself become (and how little self respect I have for myself sometimes). I am angry that I allowed myself to be in this situation.
Not pursuing is challenging today. I want to show him or communicate to him that I love him. Not baby him. Not provide for him or make things easy. But that I care... that I love him. I can be strong, but this is a challenge today.
How do I respond if he says "I love you" or "I miss you?" What is the "rule" for that? If I were honest, I'd say "you too." I do love him. I do miss him, even though he hasn't even moved out yet. Withholding it seems... too cold. Too dishonest. Saying it back feels right. But is it pursuit?
GAL Goals (I know they aren't perfect... they will probably evolve):
- I will continue to lose weight; every month, my weight should be down from the previous month until I am in a healthy BMI. (Measurement: each month, check to be sure I weigh less than the previous month. I prefer overall progress to a concrete number). - I will workout for at least 45 minutes at least three times a week, with walks on at least three of the off-days. (Measurement: my smartwatch keeps track of this) - I will spend time with friends or doing social things outside of work at least three times a week (Measurement: my calendar will enable me to check this.) - I will meditate at least three times a week. (Measurement: put this in my calendar when I do it)
- I will create an article for publication in my field by September 2018. (Deliverable: article) - I will reach out to potential co-presenters for a call for proposals for a January 2019 conference by the end of next week (4/13) and submit the proposal by May 10. (Deliverable: submitted proposal) - I will create an annotated bibliography and literature review for a potential doctoral program/dissertation by September 2018. (Deliverable: literature review and bibliography) - I will find a productive way to spend my professional development funding by the end of April and go for it. (Deliverable: spend professional development money) - I will research or try two new hobbies or ideas for creative outlets by the end of May. (Deliverable: keep track of this on calendar)
- Once I reach a healthy weight, I will revamp my wardrobe, spending more money on things than I usually do. I will look into finding a personal stylist to help with my image. (Measurement - wardrobe) - Once I am alone in the house, I will pay for a deep cleaning, then keep my house at the level where it will take less than 30 minutes for the house to be presentable enough to have someone over. (Measurement - tricky!) - Once I have a sense on where my finances are alone and not with H, I will plan a trip to somewhere new or exciting, either by myself or with friends. (Measurement - fun trip completed!)
Reading back over what I just posted is weird. It's like I want to cure my anger through connection and reaching out and showing love. I do this a lot. When I am angry at H... rather than expressing my anger, I pursue and show care.
What a weird reaction. I do this a lot. And it totally works to dissipate my anger. Good to learn this about myself, but it is a strange habit to have, I think. Huh. Food for thought.
