WAS vs MLC...not sure it really matters, part 3

[ciluzen]

SKM,
I'm glad you are working on you. We and our situations are very similar. I, too, liked Gottman for communication issues and a surface understanding. Very task oriented. But it doesn't really help with anger or underlying emotion very well, I'm finding.

I only mentioned bids for affection because I noticed those in your post and wanted to know if you realized that he was putting forth an effort, or how much that effort means. I was confused by why my XH would not let go even though he rushed through the separation to D process; and why he still reaches out even now. I also am someone who is proud of my abilities to get stuff done. I even tried to do his stuff when I saw him stressing over it. I never realized how emasculating it can be to take on everything for someone and tell them it was "no problem" when they were feeling overwhelmed. I thought I was being loving and caring, but he was feeling less and less worth. He decided I didn't need him, so he told me he didn't need me. Communication issues.

Beyond that, though, is those emotions that underly our actions. Why does betrayal make us so angry? Why would someone do something they knew was so wrong and would make someone they cared about so angry? Is it because they're just selfish? Or is it a need not being met? What's behind that need? My eye opener with XH was learning EFT (not the "tapping" thing).Most of what lies behind this type of relationship issue is fear of being not worthy, fear of being left, and fear of being unloveable. How are most men taught to be worthy? By doing things for their woman, providing for her, and protecting her.If she can do it all, is he necessary? The other side of that is, why do we feel it necessary to do it all? What were we taught, by whom, that made it so important to take on the world? What do we really want? What about our H's choosing another is bothering us the most? Are we just angry? Is there hurt behind the anger? What is the hurt coming from and what fear does that touch on in us? Anyway, I found the ideas interesting, but definitely one to do in couples therapy...you need that trained third person buffer. The concepts, though, are helpful on your own and work well with DB.

The idea of pursuer and distancer are also broken down further into "burnt-out pursuer" and a former distancer then reacting by becoming a "pursuer-blamer". I saw my XH as a distancer...but realized he pursued me hard before and I just enjoyed it. After awhile, he burnt out and withdrew. Then I started to pursue him, but with confusion and anger...hence the blamer response. That viewpoint alone shifted my way of seeing our relationship to the point where I had to share it with XH in an apology. Back to the first big wound I could remember seeing, but not fully understanding at the time. His reaction, when I apologized and explained was...amazing. A game changer. Relief? Release? He finally felt understood. And that's what we all want from our "other". The feeling of support and not being alone. We seem to just misinterpret actions and efforts when our biases and inability to see past what our experiences in life have formed as truth in our minds (our point of view) get in the way. At least for that instance. So, yes. Very happy with the deeper work of EFT.

He has said that he has guilt, but it doesn't have as much of an impact on things like it used to. That was hard for me to hear, On one hand I don't want him to live his life with guilt controlling his life or choices, but I also don't want him to ever forget what he did to me and our M.

I know I still have anger about what he did, and I'm sure there is a part of me that doesn't want to let that go because then it is like he gets a pass for what he did, but....I am working on letting that go daily. I don't raise my voice, or have rage anymore when he says something that upsets me.......I just don't have it in me to be that way anymore.

Be careful of what you think you hear. Remember, you are biased and angry and have had a whole different set of experiences in your life shaping your point of view. Are you sure that his saying his guilt 'doesn't have an impact on things like it used to" means the same to him as you are interpreting it? That's a wide open statement, really.

I highlighted these things because, although I see you acknowledge your anger, you also appear to really want to punish him. First, I bet his guilt is strong enough to be his punishment. He may hide a portion of it because there is shame as well, but his bids are like putting his hand out and his head down in supplication.

Second, if you can't really find an understanding and find a way to get past the anger and need to hurt him back (what punishment is), you both lose. And he'll just look for that "acceptance" and verification of worth through others again. This dynamic has created a lack of trust for both of you. You are angry and don't trust him to hurt you again; he doesn't trust you not to punish him or hurt him in the way he possibly felt hurt before drifting. That trust won't happen unless you can go deep and understand each other's motivations. Deep seated stuff.

The fact that you don't raise your voice or rage at him means you are getting very good at controlling
your anger, which takes a huge effort and is exhausting, but your anger is still there. If it is there, it will come out in some way, shape, or form. If you're familiar with bids, are you familiar with the four horsemen? That's "seepage". Uncover the anger and pick it apart. Its hurt and it most likely comes from am even deeper emotional need.

I'm in your corner, SKM. I get that anger and need to punish. But what do you really want? If you really want him back, how much glass are you really willing to walk through? You'll need that third person to keep it safe, because trust-work gets worse before it gets better. The fact that he's still there and working speaks volumes. And patience...working on your own stuff first can also ease the process. Its "MLC", or by any other name...its a process. And as MWD has stated, a really long road. I personally kinda hope there's more than just ice cream and cake at the end of it.