No affair, no feelings...is there hope?

[44tries]

You initially said this:
all my plans for career (I am currently in a masters program) have to be changed to get a job quickly and support myself and we would have to figure out how to pay for my stuff to be moved including my car etc

To me, this is something you need to figure out. Not her. She isnt responsible for your choices for your masters program and job and so on if you do wind up splitting. As Cadet says, Knowledge is Power. Sometimes just knowing what your options are can help you to not be so paralyzed. Taking ownership of your self can be a powerful step to help you break free of your fears of the 'what-ifs'.

So I will clarify this a bit, the job I left to move here overseas was a job directly related to my undergrad degree. My master's is in a much broader field and I am intending to leave the more specific field I was in before, not completely discounting a future possibility of combining the two. However, I have had to do significant background work for the master's since a lot of it was not a part of my undergrad. I am in the middle of it, so if I were to get a job immediately I'm not ready for the new field and would probably have to go back to my old field in the meantime. This is not totally disastrous, but it is a step back and wasn't the plan, and I am also a year removed now from working in that industry. The good news is that my master's program is remote (how I am able to do it while I'm overseas) and fairly flexible. I wouldn't have to completely drop out because of a location change or going back to work full time. But it will take much longer to complete and be a lot harder, since as I mentioned it is difficult material that I don't have undergrad foundation in so being able to dedicate full time hours to it has been pretty important. Long story short, I don't feel totally hopeless about it if I have to make it work. Certainly wouldn't be ideal like it has been, but I'm grateful as it could be much worse I guess. I will definitely fill in the details though and make sure I have a solid plan should I have to go this route.

One of the biggest takeaways that I got from DR was how important it is to recognize these areas of growth and then to also lay out a plan for actually achieving them. So what quantifiable actions can you take to progress towards this goal? How will you exhibit these traits?

Great points. It's easy to say I want to be less selfish, but thinking about quantifiable actions is a lot harder. I will work on laying out a plan with specific, tangible objectives.

I think youre on the right path. I get being committed to this relationship even in the face of the actions and words from your W. There is no shame in that. My concern is that if you let her get everything she wants for forever, then she has no reason to change the status quo. The bed is kind of a microcosm - here you are, devoted to your marriage 100%, but she wants to separatae and so you move to the guest room sometimes to....help her feel better? Im not sure exactly.

Im not saying that you should be a jerk to her or punish for her thoughts. And Im not saying you should go run out and look for other women or anything like that. Im saying that it isnt your job to cater to her every whim right now. She fired you from that job. You talk about being unselfish, but really, I kinda think now is the time where you SHOULD be a little bit selfish. She is giving you the gift of time to go out and become the person you want to become. Take advantage of it!

My other point above was that you act and come across like you are committed to the marriage 100%. I commend you for that. It's OK to give off that persona here. But think about what that says to W that you are OK with her doing whatever it is she wants and youll always be there as a safety net. How does that attitude lead to her valuing you or your relationship? Now is a good time to understand what qualities you value in a relationship and what you want out of a partner. What is your recourse if she cant meet those expectations?

Right, this makes sense and falls in line with putting myself first and working on detachment. I agree that I struggle with the safety net issue, because my instinct says that I want to be my wife's safety net and that's part of my job (I know, I'm fired now). But, I definitely think it costs me respect and the ability to be valued if I take it too far. I'm asking to be taken for granted. This is something that has been a recurring problem for me even in past relationships and I will do some deeper thinking on your questions.

I am definitely 100% committed, for better or for worse. I don't want to be unhealthily obsessed with it, especially if there is no hope, but I am here first and foremost because I want to do everything humanly possible to save the marriage. DB has given me the hope that it is possible, while also showing me the things I need to do at the same time to better and prepare myself if it doesn't work out, and really I guess even if it does.

Its not a big deal if she initiates it. But I would say that if you are home every night when she comes in waiting to see if she wants to do something with you....thats not good. GAL is so so so so so so important. I dont think anyone here can stress that enough to you. You need to start making your own plans - even if it's just to go to the coffee house down the street for a few hours to read or people watch. Get out of the house and start doing something. Anything. Go to a dance class, a game night, a language class, parasailing, scuba diving, doesnt really matter.

This is somewhat relieving that I am 'allowed' to spend at least some time with her if it isn't me pursuing. But it's a good point about not being too available and can help balance some of that feeling that if she can have me for company she is getting the best of both worlds. Tonight, I will make it a point not to be home when she gets here. I have signed up for Meetup and am looking into some events coming up in my area. I understand how important GAL is and am making it a priority.

Claimed she wanted to quit, I supported her, but somehow half the time we were arguing about it because she wouldn't fully commit and it became an issue of me controlling her. Now it seems like a clear act of independence/rebellion now that she is "free".

Who knows? It culd be that shes sad or scared or nervous or whatever else. I would say just note it for now.

As for your other comments above...can you see a difference between "Im not willing to be around a smoker" and "You need to stop smoking if you want to be in this relationship"? I feel like the first removes any need for an argument and is about your boundary while the second is controlling to her. Think about that distinction as you move forward in this process.

I see the distinction. Clearly illustrates the problem of me not wanting to set a boundary out of fear it will push her away, which means I'm not really standing my ground on what I really want and value, and instead becoming manipulative to try and fit her into my idealistic mold.


Thank you for the feedback on my texts with her. I will try to follow the 70% advice, which will be hard because she is more of a one-liner and I am a multi-pager, always been that way. But you are right, more words are usually not necessary and this is an unbalance I have felt with many people not just her. I love the quote you provided. However, it does confuse me a bit. For some reason, I was under the impression that I wasn't supposed to let her know that I was against/fighting the divorce. Obviously she already knows it isn't what I want, but I thought I was supposed to make it seem like I had accepted it because if she gets the notion that I am hanging on, it will strengthen her resolve. Am I off base here?