Been reading here and there for a while and seeing the number of new folks joining the forum at a breakneck speed is bittersweet – realization that I am not alone and also sad that so many people are facing these issues.
Things with W are the same. Saw her today briefly and she does not look that great – looks like she’s aged so much in the last six months. Usual simple conversation and brief exchange – polite, pleasant, but formal and businesslike. Still no evidence of an A, but if she’s involved with someone, I just have pity for her as whatever that is, it cannot be a good thing for either party.
I am coming out of the woodwork a bit based on a comment by PsySara on NicoleR’s thread – “I also feel let down by DBing, let’s face it, I could read any self help book to work on myself but I wanted to save my marriage. That didn’t happen and I feel disappointed my children will be from a divorced household.”
You know, that kinda hit me. Of course we can read self-help books to improve ourselves and the mantra – DB can save you, and if it saves your marriage as well it’s a bonus – can start to feel like false advertising as we came here to save our marriage’s as the first priority. But, that’s not what people are finding. Even though I totally understand that sentiment, I find that DB is about stabilizing the LBS and giving them a space to breathe and gain perspective.
I would’ve never even gotten to the self-improvement part of this equation if I hadn’t been able to ground myself through DBing. I was a hot mess after BD and blaming myself for everything and not being able to look at the marriage with objectivity. DBing – no contact, going dark, GAL, self-reflection etc – all of that allowed me to stand on my two feet without falling over. If it wasn’t for that, I have no idea where I would be right now – 9 months post BD going strong and head/emotions straight. DBing allowed me to slow down and recognize that it takes two hands to clap, and that I wasn’t the most horrific person on the planet as I was thinking about myself.
DBing also allowed me to understand that even though my W basically treated me like trash and threw me out like garbage, I had value and that others saw that value in me, but most importantly that I could see that value in myself – that I was capable of receiving love and being loved. That this one person wasn’t going to define my value for me.
And let’s face it – BD is the declaration that the marriage is dead, but it’s been dead for one person for a long time before the pronouncement. And when the LBS realizes that the marriage was a piece of garbage and that they weren’t the only one responsible for its demise, there is no desire for the LBS to go back to that marriage. I certainly hope not a single LBS here will take their partner back just the way they were because you’ve just kicked another can of BD down the road.
As I see it, DBing is about bringing back the genuine spark and desire to be with the other person, and then translating that into a new marriage. But for that, the LBS has to cocoon themselves and fortify themselves to be able to get back to their old self with new and improved features. And it has to be authentic and to be done for themselves without any hope for recon. And then, maybe, just maybe, the other person will see that there is more value in recon than separation/divorce. If that point comes, the LBS then has the option to recon or move ahead in their life without their previous partner.
So, all in all, DBing is about saving marriages and relationships, but not at the cost of the LBS interests. I most certainly would want to have another shot at the marriage, for the sake of my children, and hoping that my W would want to undertake a process to improve herself so that she could be a strong person and a better partner. But, all of that part is out of my control and I could follow Sandi’s rules to the T and there is no guarantee.
I get being disheartened that your partners haven’t turned around back towards you. But, I also have faith that there is a lot more in store for me and my children, and so much of that is in my control. I hope you also get there and feel the same in time.
I would say that I have come to a place where I am a lot more calm and collected than before, and that I am not doing anything as a tactic or strategy to get my W to pay attention to me. I am basically being true to myself and what feels right to me and I have stopped worrying about whether this will have a positive or negative impact with W.
I don’t think my sitch is going to result in recon and I am okay with that. DBing will not give me a chance at another shot at my marriage, but it certainly set me on a good path to find a better partner and also be a better partner as well. I don’t say that as some mantra, but as a true success story. I know the final pages are still to be written on my marriage, but I am more than okay with the ending that I see coming.
I hope that other LBS’s who are disheartened see that there is so much more to gain in life than this one person and what they have done. Our children deserve our stronger selves and I most certainly am not going to let them down, no matter what the other person does. I can tell you that my kids adore me and love spending time with me, and vice versa. Is it the most optimal situation – no, but you can either just keep grieving the loss or take time to process it and double down on your parenting with them and find those moments of joy. I got robbed of 50% of my kids lives and I can’t do $hit about it – plain and simple. You don’t need to learn to accept it and it being a ‘new normal’, but you can figure out how to live with it and take your rage out in productive ways. Yes, take up lifting weights and knock that sucker out.
There are so many success stories here and I hope that people see the spectrum of victories rather than just focusing on whether LBS’s got another shot at their marriage. There are so many amazing LBS’s here, and their partners are absolute fools to have left them.
Maika, that was such a thoughtful and well-written post you wrote. I hope I get a chance to respond tomorrow. You're a great role model. It's helpful to hear your thought process. Thanks for sharing.
M, very good last post. I’m in the first month since moms drop and have been feeling down, reading your post has helped me to pick my head up some. Thanks and take care.
M:26 WAW:26 T:11 M:7 D:3 BD 1 10/16 I love you but not in love BD 2 2/18 I love you but... W moves out 3/18
Let me just say something that I have observed, its first came to me when reviewing a post by Cherry who completely lost her attraction for a WH who became ugly and decompensated. I am referring here to waywards not walkaways. In that scenario, one to Tango really helps. The M that I have seen repaired here have almost exclusively with walkaways, usually W, and the H DB really helps. Sadly many R on this board are with waywards, compulsives and abusives.
It's partly lifestyle, a party lifestyle, alcohol, poor sleep habits, bad food, instability in daily habits such as lack of exercise that causes deterioration in the wayward. It's written all over them.
It's more than that, imagine this:
You have a hole in your soul and you know it. You have caused pain and hurt to those you said you loved and cared for. To justify your new lifestyle then you must rewrite your history, blame the LBS, behave crummy, possibly even lose family and friends. You have the uncertainty of being with a new partner who cheated with you and may likely cheat on you. The sex is addictive but probably unloving. You have affair down, you have to deal with a legal system and are (in most cases) going to be short of funds. This means you might build debt, you may not care now but life builds on you.
You are deteriorating and you know it and really don't care much. You have it covered.
In order to 'get through' then you may cross the Rubicon, your LBS loves you and they are clearly chasing, begging and pleading. Please stay, think of our children, your M, reconsider please, pretty please. Will ya? Makes it safer to have a schmuck or chump to fall back on, heavens they can even be persuaded to leave the MBR and MH. They even leave it to you to do the D, giving you every thing you want. What's not to like? If they don't you can blame, press buttons, threaten, intimidate and lie.
Your life is a lie from first thing in the morning to last thing at night. The A (or As) is in the open so no double life, you BD. The manipulation starts, you need resources to continue your awful lifestyle.
Then change, your LBS stays in the MBR and MH, they start to move on. They get fit, eat healthy, relate better to the kids, go out, dress better, eat better. Generally get their stuff together.
You are deteriorating and the LBS is getting detached. You rage and manipulate, you test and you decide and you may not care. Bravado.
You look in the mirror and decide the person looking back is not you. But it is the truth and you deny.
You either get your act together or you don't care because you are disordered or you have gone too far or you simply haven't gone far enough.
Your LBS files, they use the LRT technique, they may even start going no contact. They are angry, they go through the Kubler Ross cycle. You might persuade them you want to R when secretly hiding your old behaviours. The cycle may start again.
Eventually the LBS reaches disgust and at that point they are gone. There is no going back, even if you wanted to. Doesn't matter to you, that's what you think, you get a new partner and try to rebuild. The ex is paying but it's all down hill for you.
I always believe at the end of the day it's the LBS has the choice.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Great post Maika!! I just wanted to add something, not to you so much because clearly you "get it" but to newer people here who may read some of the negative comments about DB'ing and get discouraged:
Originally Posted By: Maika
I am coming out of the woodwork a bit based on a comment by PsySara on NicoleR’s thread – “I also feel let down by DBing, let’s face it, I could read any self help book to work on myself but I wanted to save my marriage. That didn’t happen and I feel disappointed my children will be from a divorced household.”
Yeah, I get that. The biggest problem with ANY marriage saving approach is typically the LBS doesn't begin applying it until it is very, very late in the game. If we knew about DB'ing before then many of us could have turned things around before we ever got close to being BD'd. But once a WAS is to the point of BD, it is a monumental task to turn them around. But if the point is that DB'ing is a failure if you don't save your M, then I would say this- what about your next R or M? Do you really think this is your last one? I've been dating my GF for 3 years and got a mini BD not too long ago. We started talking and I was shocked to hear a lot of the same things my ex said after BD (she didn't feel good enough for me, felt I was too critical, did not give her reassurances about the R, etc.) Seems I got a little complacent and fell into old habits. But here is the difference this time- I SAW THE WARNING SIGNS RIGHT AWAY. As soon as I heard her say these things my attitude wasn't to tune it out and write it off as "nagging" like I would have before. I swung into full-blown DB'ing mode. I listened, I validated, I gave her time and space. The result was it brought us closer than ever before. We opened up to each other and really shared our thoughts and feelings. We reconned without ever really breaking up.
And besides that, you never know what the future holds. There's my friend I mention now and then that remarried his ex 10 years after their divorce. So when someone here says DB'ing "failed" them, I say come back in 10 years when you are remarried to your ex or saving your next R and tell me if you still think DB'ing is a failure
I wanted to add one small post about the ultimate fate of a wayward.
Once again from the waywards perspective.
You have lied and cheat and manipulated. You have misused your body and mind, possibly with substances or alcohol or smoking or compulsions.
You are truly empty and have poor cognitive functions, your wits, health and looks are declining. You may have a damaged liver, kidneys, lungs and likely poor health with serious amyloid deposits.
Cognitive function starts to decline, because you are emotionally dysregulated and can't self sooth then starting to be unpleasant to be around.
Keeping your mask on takes lots of energy, you may persuade some folks although because you always move on in your life, your friendships aren't deep or meaningful. If you have a partner then communication is likely to be poor.
As you are impulsive then you spend money to buy company and items you think you need to maintain your veneer. It's hard work as you get older and you get weak. You never really had any true interests of your own, being a chameleon you adopted those of each partner. Your R are shallow like your affect. Your children likely don't love or like you, they see how you treated the other parent, how you had affairs, how you abandoned and they feel that too.
Your behaviour leaves you without the peace of spirituality and you age poorly, you see this as weakness. You can't maintain your health.
Statistically because of your choices you are likely to get dementia and degenerative diseases which you do not suffer well. You don't know how. Even if you have really been vain and looked after your physical health, mentally the stress of pretending to be some one you aren't takes its toll. You can't keep the lies together.
You are most likely to commit suicide, end up in a hostel (if male) and on benefits, having not saved for your pension.
Your LBS being very fond of DB, being authentic but damaged temporarily by you, has grown, takes extreme care of themselves. Is loved by their children with family and friends. They are active, positive, optimistic and recovered.
The LBS knows a healthy R from an unhealthy one, has an equal loving partner in life. They grow and have a good old age, dying with their higher spirit connected and in peace with themselves. Of course their fins were damaged but they recovered through determination and hard work. They have sufficient and they have love of self, with their higher spirit and those around them. Living an enriched life.
So Karma was there all along.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thanks everyone for adding more to this conversation. V - you paint quite the picture and it is truly sad to see that this can be the fate for many of the wayward folks. It's interesting to see that you have seen most recons happen with walkaways rather than waywards - I remember somewhere Michele talking about how turning the ship around with walkaways was so much harder.
The other thing I wanted to add, a point which I've seen AS make many times - DB is probably one of your best chances to turn things around in your MR. You saw that begging pleading and all of that didn't work and actually created more disrespect and nonsense for the LBS.
If you didn't try DB, what else did you have in mind to try and save your MR? At least DB gives you a good chance to get your MR a second new and improved life, and on top it gives the LBS a real opportunity for personal growth.
And do you honestly want to go back to the same person who walked out on you / cheated on you?
So, I don't know the success rate for DBing, if you measure success as only reconciliations. But I can't imagine it being any worse than anything else out there.
