Hoping this can be saved, but having doubts

[reframe]

Things are escalating quickly.
The wife came home last night (after the convo above) and announced that she'd found a room to rent and would likely be moving out this weekend.

I initially handled it pretty well (detached acceptance) but she keep pressing for me to talk more. It predictably became a full on R-talk, that I engaged in logically. And we know how well that works....

It looks like this is happening. I'm feeling pretty shattered right now, only got around 3 hours of sleep and can barely function.

I also can't believe who this woman has become. The fact that she was willing to move without the dogs shocks me.

[SteveLW]

Hmmm. Are you very sure there isn't someone else? Someone that would let her move in but not let her bring the dogs?

[AnotherStander]

Things are escalating quickly.
The wife came home last night (after the convo above) and announced that she'd found a room to rent and would likely be moving out this weekend.

That previous convo was FULL of pressure from you. You've got to remove all pressure from her. No R talk AT ALL. No talking about working on things, or being there for her, or anything of the sort. SHE DOESN'T WANT THAT. She might in the future, but not now, not at all. And she keeps telling you that, yet you keep pushing and pressuring. Things are escalating quickly because of YOU! You have got to let go of her. Leave her alone and work on you.

I initially handled it pretty well (detached acceptance) but she keep pressing for me to talk more. It predictably became a full on R-talk, that I engaged in logically. And we know how well that works....

Would love to hear details. I suspect YOU made it a full-on R talk when you should have been quiet, listened and validated.

It looks like this is happening. I'm feeling pretty shattered right now, only got around 3 hours of sleep and can barely function.

I'm sorry, I know it's difficult. But in most (maybe all) cases growth on both sides doesn't START until AFTER separation. Try to think of it as a step forward for both of you, and maybe for your M too.

[reframe]

Steve85 -
I don't think she's moving in with anyone romantically. She found a room share where she can take the dogs. I strongly suspect an infatuation (of not an actual A, but who knows) given the talk of dating though. People don't generally bring that up unless they're thinking of something.

[reframe]

Things are escalating quickly.
The wife came home last night (after the convo above) and announced that she'd found a room to rent and would likely be moving out this weekend.

That previous convo was FULL of pressure from you. You've got to remove all pressure from her. No R talk AT ALL. No talking about working on things, or being there for her, or anything of the sort. SHE DOESN'T WANT THAT. She might in the future, but not now, not at all. And she keeps telling you that, yet you keep pushing and pressuring. Things are escalating quickly because of YOU! You have got to let go of her. Leave her alone and work on you.

Yes - I realize that now. I need stop saying "this is not what I want" and scale way back.
Tonight (after a good session with Chuck) I managed to have a good talk with her, where I expressed a desire for self improvement, but no indication that I wanted to continue things. I even wisher her luck with her new place.

I did get cornered again when we started talking about logistics of the move, and she asked why I didn't want to get a D now.

I initially handled it pretty well (detached acceptance) but she keep pressing for me to talk more. It predictably became a full on R-talk, that I engaged in logically. And we know how well that works....

Would love to hear details. I suspect YOU made it a full-on R talk when you should have been quiet, listened and validated.

In hindsight, I think you're right. One of the things my DB coach (Chuck) mentioned is that WAW will push buttons to validate their feelings. That "they do it to hear what the expect, not what they want". So while my initial response was good, that made her feel a little softer, which rattled her, and she tested me - and I failed/took the bait.

It looks like this is happening. I'm feeling pretty shattered right now, only got around 3 hours of sleep and can barely function.

I'm sorry, I know it's difficult. But in most (maybe all) cases growth on both sides doesn't START until AFTER separation. Try to think of it as a step forward for both of you, and maybe for your M too.

I actually am. Or at least I feel a lot less hopeless than last night. She was pretty sad tonight because it will probably be her last night in our house. We talked for 10-15 minutes after dinner, and it felt (disturbingly) like old times. She even initiated a deep hug on her way to bed.

She said "it's a chapter closing".
I realize I need to GAL and start to move on, but (to quote Chuck) "Let's see how she responds to some physical distance, and to you not chasing at all"

[reframe]

FYI - responded to you comment about pressure above too, but it looks like I didn't escape the quotes properly and it's easy to miss.

[AnotherStander]

Yes - I realize that now. I need stop saying "this is not what I want" and scale way back.
Tonight (after a good session with Chuck) I managed to have a good talk with her, where I expressed a desire for self improvement, but no indication that I wanted to continue things. I even wisher her luck with her new place.

That's perfect! Just understand that she doesn't care about your self-improvement right now, so don't spend a lot of time hyping it to her. She'll believe actions, not words. And for her to believe actions, they have to be consistent over a long period of time. So work on your 180's and stick with them! Take a long-term view.

I did get cornered again when we started talking about logistics of the move, and she asked why I didn't want to get a D now.

OK well we do preach "no R talk" here, but we mean don't "initiate" R talk. If she brings it up it's OK to respond. Your response should be along these lines: "I don't want a divorce, I would rather work on the M. But I understand that you feel it's your only way forward and I support you in your decision." The idea is to "open the cage door" and remove all pressure. You're acknowledging you don't want D while also stating you're not going to try and stop it. You're also pointing out that it is HER choice one way or the other, you're not trying to control the situation. Does that make sense?

In hindsight, I think you're right. One of the things my DB coach (Chuck) mentioned is that WAW will push buttons to validate their feelings. That "they do it to hear what the expect, not what they want". So while my initial response was good, that made her feel a little softer, which rattled her, and she tested me - and I failed/took the bait.

Don't look it as a failure, it was just a backslide. We all have/ had them. Learn and move forward!

We talked for 10-15 minutes after dinner, and it felt (disturbingly) like old times. She even initiated a deep hug on her way to bed.

That's great! Of course it doesn't mean anything has changed, but it's a nice baby step. It means she's remembering good things about the M.

I realize I need to GAL and start to move on, but (to quote Chuck) "Let's see how she responds to some physical distance, and to you not chasing at all"

Excellent advice!

[reframe]

Thanks AnotherStander. There are bits of positivity, but I don't think anything has changed yet. She's still moving out (today) and still wants to date other people. She's sad about leaving the house, but she's convinced herself this is what she needs to do.

The divorce talk was tough to avoid. We were talking about practicals of the split. We have a preempt that specifies temporary small alimony when we divorce or legally separate.

I indicated that I could start those payments now, but I'd want a doc indicating that they counted as that alimony since we're not getting a D at the moment and I didn't want to be on the hook for them twice.

That prompted her to ask why I don't want to get a D now, "besides hoping we'll get back together".

I said "that's not what I want, this is an intermediate step, and I don't think there is any rush. You can file if you want to, but I'm not going to"

She jumped on the "intermediate" line and said she didn't feel that way, and I indicated that I meant "in between" and not "temporary".

The convo still felt like I could have handled it better, but I'm not sure how.

[AnotherStander]

Oh OK, that makes more sense. It actually sounds like you handled it pretty well.

[reframe]

Rough morning. I cleaned our our van that she'll be using to work today.
She was packing up her stuff and generally getting ready. She's very sad and emotional, crying a lot.

At one point she said "I know this is what I signed up for".
I've managed to remain a rock - acknowledged that this was sad, comforted her, and even said I could take the day off of work and help her move.
(Coach said this was good, but ONLY if I could keep it together).

It is SOOO hard not to ask her to reconsider when I see her struggling with this, but I know that'll just make her dig her heels in more.