I am not over-focused on my W or on her actions or on what she is doing... or on any of that...
Yet you keep having convos with mutual friends, checking phone logs, now bugging the bedroom and clearly listening to hours and hours of crap, coming here and trying to sell us on how "genuine" she is. Are you trying to convince us or yourself?
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If I do begin the reconciliation process with my W... if she does prove to me that she is trustworthy and if I do "let her back in", I will not tolerate name calling or abuse or disrespect of her from any quarter on these forums or elsewhere. Are we clear?
Are you referring to me calling her a lying cheater? Look Jim, that's what she is. You presented the evidence, that is the conclusion. Clear as can be. Your actions right now need to be based on that simple fact. If she goes through the long process of owning her mistakes and humbling herself and eventually the two of you work on piecing then of course no one is going to call her a lying cheater then, because her spirit will be different. But for now that's still what she is, and you have no hope of a real recon until she changes that. If you take offense to that then GOOD, you should be highly offended by her actions.
hoosjim, wow. I have considered bugging my WW many times, but have refrained. Still you did it and got the intel you did. However, did it really change anything? You are still doing what you are doing. You are still continuing your DBing. I think the info, while it might make you feel good, changes nothing in your approach.
I agree with Kitcat, I would remove the bug. And also I would side with mtb, use caution moving forward. This sounds like a wake up call for your W but it could also just be her fear in being alone, not having you there for long term financial stability, not having the control anymore, etc. Lots of those are temporary.
I know my own WW wife struggled with some of that. I remember her telling me how financially secure she felt with me "but that isn't a good reason to stay". So take this slow. Saturday is only 5 days past! While all of this points to what you are doing is working, it also is too early to tell if it is truly genuine.
In my wife's EA in 2005, she sent a no contact email to your EAP. He abided by it (mainly because he was married with 2 daughter and I threatened to expose his behavior to them).
About 6 weeks later my wife started sending him emails with song lyrics. He didn't respond. Finally she sent him a message asking why he wasn't responding and he said he didn't want to cause anymore problems.
So while 5 days of no contact with OM may be reason to celebrate, it is in no way indicative of long term no contact. WW are addicts. They are addicted to the OM, the feelings he causes, and the excitement that EAs and PAs bring. She is scared right now of losing what she has. But as a WW she is only trying to figure out how to get you back, but also keep her options open. There is no way she is over OM this soon, and I know that hurts to hear.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hey kitKat, welcome, and thank you for chiming in. I wish you had had a chance to read all my threads, including my previous one which included my manifesto on "me".
I am not spinning out of control. Far from it.
As for the recording. Someone here, i think actually Sandi, had suggested it would not be out of line. FWIW I am not constantly monitoring her. In fact, had done nothing of the sort for months.
The "consensus" here (and, in fact, even from my MC/IC believe it or not), is that a little "research" here and there is entirely justified in such circumstances (cheating spouse), as long as it doesn't become constant/obsessive-- which it isn't in this case.
This was what in the foreign policy realm would be called a "fulcrum moment". Alot of unknowns. Alot of really, really critical unknowns, and with the future path of this whole thing, perhaps forever, hanging in the balance. I had no qualms about gathering that intel. And the device is already removed. I know all that i need to know.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
So while 5 days of no contact with OM may be reason to celebrate, it is in no way indicative of long term no contact. WW are addicts. They are addicted to the OM, the feelings he causes, and the excitement that EAs and PAs bring. She is scared right now of losing what she has. But as a WW she is only trying to figure out how to get you back, but also keep her options open. There is no way she is over OM this soon, and I know that hurts to hear.
Nope, absolutely not. You are correct. That is for her to figure out. Presumably in IC but that is her affair, for now.
Did the bug help? Yes. Yes it did. Absolutely. Her state of mind and whether or not she might be turning is crucial, absolutely crucial. I do not know if, under any set of circumstances or actions on her part i ever could have trusted her again. This opens that door a crack. Not for her to enter now, but for me to potentially open the door wider depending on what she does going forward.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
You really do cherry pick. I am assuming your own history colors your stance, so that is how i filter what youre saying--
If you'll go back and read, you'll see the mutual friend reached out to me, not the other way around.
And Sandi advised me to spot check her
And, TBH, i suppose it's not unfair to say I am trying to "convince myself" or, rather, to get to the truth of the matter. Not sure i see the problem there, given my objectives.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
What I see as an outsider is that you get lots of great advice from several people here and yet you spin paragraphs to rationalize how their advice doesn't exactly apply to you.
You seem to pick and glen what advice you like but ignore the parts you don't want to deal with... I've seen that a lot lately but I will let the others weigh in on that observation as well. Perhaps I'm not seeing things correctly.
As for repairing trust in a relationship post A - yes it requires 100% transparency BUT... and here is the part you are not getting .. it requires the WW to open up everything to you to show she is being honest and in this 100% with you to where she accepts your scrutinizing her every move. If she is closed off and not willing... you have every right to not believe her and walk away.
Spying on her with listening bug devices places you no better than she for having an A. You don't have her agreement to take part in this... this is not her being 100% transparent. This you treating her as a prisoner with no rights.
If your WW is not on board with being 100% transparent then you are not a place where you can recon the M. And, trust me if she found out what you were doing she may very well up and leave for good. She will run to Rodney saying to him - you have no idea what he has stooped to now...
Your WW may very well be confused at this point and filled with regret but she is still on precarious scale that could easily shift back to Rodney and you are adding fuel to the fire.
What happened to being the spouse only a fool would leave?
A spouse that only a fool would leave would place definite boundaries on acceptable behavior. Expect the WW to be 100% transparent without having to go to the level to spy in such a way. Otherwise you are just fooling yourself that she is there to stay.
Hey kitKat, welcome, and thank you for chiming in. I wish you had had a chance to read all my threads, including my previous one which included my manifesto on "me".
I am not spinning out of control. Far from it.
As for the recording. Someone here, i think actually Sandi, had suggested it would not be out of line. FWIW I am not constantly monitoring her. In fact, had done nothing of the sort for months.
The "consensus" here (and, in fact, even from my MC/IC believe it or not), is that a little "research" here and there is entirely justified in such circumstances (cheating spouse), as long as it doesn't become constant/obsessive-- which it isn't in this case.
This was what in the foreign policy realm would be called a "fulcrum moment". Alot of unknowns. Alot of really, really critical unknowns, and with the future path of this whole thing, perhaps forever, hanging in the balance. I had no qualms about gathering that intel. And the device is already removed. I know all that i need to know.
Not sure where you are at, but also remember that in a lot of states that type of things is illegal.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
My two cents... The bug showed you very little that is useful... What you described is a grown woman acting like a teenager who got caught doing something wrong and so is now crying because she can't go to the biggest party of the year... If my H had begged my hotel room during the three days I was kicked out of the house, he would have heard me crying non-stop too...
She sounds so scripted... Sure to say the right things... Saying that she only saw OM for one minute... First of all, who talks like that? Someone who wants to make sure, in case you or someone else happens to be listening hears her script... I am sorry, but I don't believe her story of seeing him that one time... And if you had not caught her, I highly doubt she would have jumped your body in the shower... You want to know when she felt like jumping your body? When you walked away from her and got into the Uber... That is when she found you most attractive...
After the suicide episode (the three days) and my H let me back in the house, soon after that we had the most amazing sex over the next couple of days... Our pastor warned us that it was a honeymoon phase. He was right. Nothing had really changed... My heart had still not been transformed, and neither has your wife's..
What I see as an outsider is that you get lots of great advice from several people here and yet you spin paragraphs to rationalize how their advice doesn't exactly apply to you.
You seem to pick and glen what advice you like but ignore the parts you don't want to deal with... I've seen that a lot lately but I will let the others weigh in on that observation as well. Perhaps I'm not seeing things correctly.
"Spin" is a loaded word these days, with strong negative connotations. Be careful how you use it.
Do i pick and choose re: advice? Absolutely. Guilty as charged. You'd go crazy on here, and i used to, trying to reconcile all the varying views on these boards. And even when advice and perspective is from the same provider... not everything is going to be applicable to every person. And not everything is going to be appropriate.
I am fond of saying that there is no paradigm formulated by man that is so meritorious that it is not subject to exceptions.
I absolutely pick and xhoose and will continue to do so based on my judgment and my own particular sitch.
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Spying on her with listening bug devices places you no better than she for having an A. You don't have her agreement to take part in this... this is not her being 100% transparent. This you treating her as a prisoner with no rights.
Opinions vary widely on this. Numerous very respected posters on here, as well as a whooooole lot of counselors (including my own) believe that it's okay in the case of infidelity to "data collect" or "research" or "Gather intel" or whatever, as long as it doesn't become obsessive. If you want to be nasty and try to get a rise out of people and say "snooping" i suppose you can do that to, but it doesn't change the fact of the act or the dynamics that inspired it. If you want to try to make the case that i've been obsessive about it here or any time in the recent past, i'd be glad to entertain your argument, but i don't think its a winning one.
Whichever, look... The amount of angst on these threads, including mine, amongst posters over "What she's thinking" or "Where her mind is" or "you just cant know what her intentions are" is off the charts sometimes. So... BOOM... here ya go: Here's what she's thinking. You're welcome.
As to the rest, all very, very true. She has to elect/agree to be tranparent (though understand here that, as a recovering WW, at which time if i ever do "let her back in" or give her another shot, she will have to agree to transparency steps chosen by ME... and this is absolutely consistent with what Sandi2 and Artista and the other WW gurus preach.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
After the suicide episode (the three days) and my H let me back in the house, soon after that we had the most amazing sex over the next couple of days... Our pastor warned us that it was a honeymoon phase. He was right. Nothing had really changed... My heart had still not been transformed, and neither has your wife's..
Funny you say that. The past couple of days, even though i continue to be borderline repulsed by her behavior, and completely untrusting of her, i have had the most inexplicable sexual attraction to her. Like, wild. Like fantasizing about going home and busting down the door of the house, and... ya know. She wrote me a looooong letter, that i finally read (more on that later today, no time now, counselor suggested it--- said we will have to at least coexist FTTB) and it didn't help that dynamic (IOW it didn't cool me down any just the opposite.) And i never had this happen the whole time of the A or, though yes i was attracted to her, even when we were supposedly "piecing" and dating and the like.
Dont worry Artista. I am not going to let her off the hook or let her back in too soon. She has work to do. She knows it, i know it, counselor knows it.
I'll just be spending some time in the cold shower.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
