That escalated quickly; WW's A RESUMES(hoosjim#13)

[25yearsmlc]

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Sandi said she was transparent (although he never asked me to be), b/c she was remorseful and she had learned of its importance

from the LBS's on the board. I think it helped my H, and I know it helped me. I needed to give an account.......to show I was being honest and doing the right thing, and this was the vehicle that helped keep me stay on track. What drives out the darkness better than light? What exposes and keeps away secrets? If she wants atonement.......what better way than welcome her H to look at her activity.

Jim, do you think your wife wants real, honest to goodness atonement? She's not hit rock bottom yet my friend.

Hey, I've been where you are, constantly trying to predict what h was thinking or feeling or doing or planning. WHY he'd want to live in Alaska, WHY he'd choose a PLACE over our marriage and children and all the shared history.

A series of unanswerable riddles...me being the marriage police, and wracking my brain over what was next. It took me the past year for it to truly sink in that h does not have MY values. That is why I kept asking the "why" questions b/c it made no sense to ME. I would never do what h did, so it confused the heck out of me.

I kept wondering why/how h was doing what he was doing, and that was b/c I projected what I, 25, would do if I were in xh's shoes. But that was a fundamentally wrong way to look at his behavior. The fact is, x h's values and perspectives are NOT the same as mine. I don't know when they changed but it's like the word "blue" means one thing to me and though h uses the same word, what HE means is not the same. I think it's the color of the sky on a sunny day but x h thinks it means the cloudy day.

In other words, the more you assume she's like you or that you are like her, the longer you will be confused and stuck.

My x h and I have very different views and values and what HE would be willing to do was very different than what I'd be willing to do. Ever.

So, How do you feel about that?

Okay, there is nuance here I am going to ask some clarification on. Obviously, a WW to start her escape from wayward Ness needs to ditch the disrespectful, ggw behavior (staying out late, not acting like a married woman), and, when a WW gets caught and the H drops HIS bomb, you get a self preservation burst of activity (as we're seeing with mine.)

Not sure how much of this^^ is so obvious, or nuanced but...

What if your w has decided that her unmet needs from the past, justify her doing whatever she wants now, preferably without getting caught?

What if the "disrespectful" stuff is simply coming out passively, by her continuing the A? And other boundary crossings...what if she's not that unusual for a wife who wants to have A's?

Please Don't overlook how many LBSers here are blindsided by their WAS's choices.

X and I ml the morning he went to Alaska for "a trip"...& that was the last time I saw him.
He surprised me the whole past 2 years...

Not all WAS's are mean or overtly behaving in ways that would alert us. Many (most?) like to eat cake. Your wife likes cake.

And of course, that plays with your mind and heart in a whole new way...which really delays our awakenings (the DB goal of our own awakening is crucial to recall. )

it's very confusing, I know, and that confusion delays our healing.


Okay, so what about after that. In a couple of weeks, after the adrenaline and shock have worn off, if the WW is still, at that point, "doing work that would otherwise be productive" and maintaining her more respectful/respectable demeanor... what would distingush that (say, in my w's case bwing the obvious implication) from your phase described above where you are "doing the work because you know you should but your heart is not in it."

How do you distinguish the deceptive from the genuine-if-not-heartfelt effort. And it can't be the full humble apology, right, because for you that came much later, yes?

It's just the more I read from you ladies about this Dynamic, it seems like it is really hard to see from the outside whether or not the Wayward wife's heart has turned. Or at least has turned enough that it can be trusted to start moving down the right path.

Oh Jim, speaking for myself and with the benefit of the hindsight gained after a decade of "reconciliation", please let me offer some advice. (B/c I get the feeling you ignore what I say if it's not pro pro pro believing she's trustworthy and all in.)

if my x were to want to reconcile, NOW, I'd refuse to do anymore guesswork or riddle solving, I'd tolerate no more Itchy sweater feelings, wondering "is he really in the m, NOW??"

A damn humble apology would be essential for x to reconnect with our children b/c their pain must be acknowledged and not ignored. How else can he even pretend to want to show them their value? As for me, he betrayed me and heck yes, I deserve an apology and until I got one, I would not bother doing much "work" on my end.

I realize you have some different kind of dynamic going, but making it too easy to regain the lost trust is simply an exercise in NOT regaining the trust.

I would have to be crystal clear on what and why x he wanted to reconcile, and I'd need to be won over with EFFORT from him.

That is a regret I have about our reconciliation. I did not get clarity from x. I simply trusted that he meant what he said. I did not "make him" work for it and I'm not suggesting anything punitive.

But I wish he and I (and h alone), had gotten counseling so I could hear what he thought had happened. So I could KNOW he realized he had inflicted deep pain on the 4 people who loved him the most.

When X had a day of clarity at Retrovaille in which he was accountable - I felt we had gotten somewhere. I gave that ONE day of tears great weight.

But in a matter of months his remorse had converted into blame shifting.

True effort would mean time, consistent & overt effort and IC on HIS end (and whatever I needed).

I'd have zero (ZERO) tolerance for more doubt. I've been thru enough now.

I would do No more Marriage policing...life is short, Jim. I deserve certainty in the partner I have, and he will get it from me.

Jim, I'm dating someone now and before I continue, we are both aware of rebounds and how we must take things very slowly. So let me say that up front.

However, the way he treats me is with so much kindness and honesty and affection, that it sometimes makes me shake my head. Why was I slogging thru with x, when he mistreated me that way, and was so eternally discontented?

I know you don't want to hear anything but why this will eventually work out, AND it's not that I think it cannot work. I just think you are doing a lot of the "Pick me" dance. AND That does not work.

And the only way to gain any real lasting effort from her is by her losing you - feeling the loss and seeing you in a new light - and THEN regaining your trust AND your interest.

it's the only way she might awaken and to do that, YOU have to awaken to this.
Face the few facts you know.

Is it true that she's had an A and then pretended to stop, but really hasn't? Are you asking why she'd do that? INSTEAD of asking why she's doing what she's doing,

ask yourself, Jim, what do YOU want? Is this marriage making YOU happy? What will YOU tolerate?

Is this marriage AS IT IS NOW with all the doubts and missteps, enough for you?

Are you allowed to be your own priority? Does YOUR happiness get to matter?