That escalated quickly; WW's A RESUMES(hoosjim#13)

[hoosjim]

Coconut, I love ya, man, and I'm sorry your MR sitch turned out the way it did and happy you now seem to have found peace and fulfillment beyond that old MR, but... I think your, IDK, mindset(?) is not strictly applicable to me. Although, you do offer several good warnings and other useful nuggets. All of your concerns and objections with me right now seemed aimed at "you shouldn't be harboring even a scintilla of hope or even acknowledging that there may be a one in one million chance of eventual reconciliation." I'll address some of the specifics below, because I think the points you raise are valid, to a point, but I also want you to know where I am coming from. As a starting generalization, this is the "divorce busting" forum and the "divorce busting" website. Granted that GAL and "doing oneself" and "detachment" are critical components of all of that, but, once the MR and any hope for it is dead, gone, and buried? Divorce is what's happening and I, personally, will have no more use for DB-ing other than as a contributor... See ya'll 'round. The GAL and getting on with my life stuff? I've got that down, or, at least now I do. The pathetic, shell-shocked, desperate dude that got BD'd in January 2017 is done. Even after last Saturday, I still feel immensely better than I have at any point with the exception of the past, say, 4-5 weeks where I really though the MR was coming back... and I am really even not too far off of that. Maybe it's a component of my training or just the way my mind works and the ability to both compartmentalize as well as to analyze and contemplate multiple outcomes at once, but I personally see no contradiction in my operating principle being to write off the marriage while still acknowledging the possibility that it might, at some unforeseeable time in the future, be revived. My mind simply does not work any other way. I'd need a lobotomy to change that.

Are you maybe trying to communicate to your W through the counselor? I’m kind of surprised that it isn’t a conflict of interest for a counselor to see you both individually, but I think that there is way to much cross information going on.

Ya know I had the same concerns, and did a lot of looking into this and asking around and it really is not a COI. If we were actively in divorce proceedings, a legal matter, then... maybe. But only maybe. This MC in particular says she does it all the time. And while she is very very very pro-marriage and anti-divorce, she does facilitate between couples whose marriages can't be saved... which is something that is quite likely to be needed in my case as well.

As to "trying to communicate", everything conveyed to the counselor today was in response to her questioning. Remember that she only received a thumbnail sketch by text of what transpired over the weekend. One of things she was trying to guage, I think, was how far gone the situation was and whether or not and under what circumstances I could consider taking W back... Which I think was pretty much the exact question she asked me. Also, FWIW, even Sandi2, and, I believe, artista have counseled me to contemplate what those preconditions might be. I have not yet fully done so (contemplated a comprehensive list of such things) because right now my emotions are still somewhat hot and I am still somewhat in "kill this m-f-er who invaded my MR and attacked my family" mode and also in "how the hell would I EVER take back that cold-hearted s**t" (which is actually what I posted on Saturday) mode. Nonetheless, because of how I process things (see above) I will at some point need to acknowledge the possibility mentally. At least until such time as I have no more feelings for the woman... which is not yet... if even then. After all, with God all things are possible.

Being that your still M, I don’t really think there is “your” money vs. “her” money… while precautions should be taken to make sure all the money doesn’t disappear, I don’t think a few hundred dollars of counseling is a big deal./quote]

This is a thoughtful response because it delves even deeper into related issues which I had not addressed. Namely, what to do about the finances in general. I had already been contemplating cancelling her cards that are co-held on my accounts and changing the account numbers, and will definitely do so if/when we separate, as appears most likely to happen very soon. We have separate checking accounts, so that is not a problem. Not sure what we'll do about the bills. We are pretty heavily leveraged, with one kid in college soon to be two, and rely on both our salaries to make ends meet. Separation and divorce will be an extreme financial hardship on us both. More on her than on me, but I aint getting out of it without some pain.

As to the sessions themselves, it was less about the money (Though there is that), and more about the optics and how I feel about supporting someone who did me so wrong. I wouldn't want to be paying for her bogus counseling (if it was bogus) any more than I'd want to be paying for her plastic surgery intended to excite other men (or even me, in the state we're in).

[quote]I’m on the need to physically separate mind set, I don’t see a way that you can continue to live in the same household and move forward on you, more to come on that.

And this is for Artista, too:

but dang it--i do disagree with your counselor as far as living in the same home, as you already know... i cannot see living together as a good thing at this time... i just don't think your W will respect your space... i think she will force discussions... and most of all, she will get comfortable and any urgency to change will wither...

And, yeah, this makes a whole lot of sense when explained, but... you gotta admit it goes against pretty much the entire orthodoxy of marriage saving with the exception of the WW experts on this site... who I have to acknowledge have been pretty much spot on WRT my wife in this one. Having said that, and also now providing the caveat that in my case right now I don't see this going any other way barring some Act of God that I cannot now foresee, I absolutely do not believe that "separation is the only way these marriages ever get successfully resolved." Facts and history just don't bear that out, and I think the world of marriage counselors would all be sued for malpractice if that were the case. Is it sometimes the case? Sure. Is it, especially in the case of WW's, usually the case? Quite possibly. In my case? Who knows. It seems to be headed that way and that seems to be the appropriate short term resolution and the way I want it to be so that's the way im playing it, but I have always had a problem with the (and sorry for this, I do love ya man) militant spurned spouses sector's stance that out of house separation is the ONLY WAY to parse these things. But I do appreciate the insight, and the discussion.... I think it is an interesting one.

This statement is what concerns me the most. You absolutely should not be investing time into your W or your M right now, not for the next few months, or year, or couple of years… You need to recognize that your M is over, you need to find the mindset of living your life, separate/away from your W. When you are working on you, you are not investing time into saving your M. Saving your M may be a by-product of working on you, but it should not be the reason for doing it, it CANNOT be the reason for doing it or you will be wasting that time.

Maybe this is just a POV difference. You say potato I say potawto. Like I said above, I regard the work I am putting in on me as both. I still have feelings for my W. I still acknowledge the possibility that at some point...which is still invisible to me both temporally and circumstantially... we might get back together and that an even better (hey, I can always improve) healthier, happier hoosjim might make that more likely at the same time it is making a better life for myself. I don't see the conflict, there. Again, maybe just a function of my personal ability to compartmentalize.

but if you spend the next 6 months thinking about reconciliation, you will be no closer to moving forward.

I will always be thinking in some part of my mind about reconciliation. There is some state of affairs or events, I am certain, that would result in a happy, healthy MR between me and my W. I need to acknowledge that and be open to it, even as I am proceeding down different paths at the moment... those paths could always re-converge. And, at least for me, that's the way it will be until we are divorced and I find someone else or one of us dies. Mentally, I just don't find this a challenging process, but maybe I am missing something, IDK.

And, again, this difference in opinions could also be driven by our somewhat different spouses, yours, IIRC, being much more prickly, confrontational, and outright nasty (Not meant as a cut against you, just noting the diff).

Anyway, I appreciate your perspective, and it always makes me think, so thanks! And keep posting!