WW's A ended, Now piecing(?) but slow, thread #12

[JRuss]

I am sorry.

[artista]

THIS:

Today when we were talking by phone on her ride in, she was very down-sounding (as opposed to the very spunky up-sounding she had been Wednesday night when I am pretty sure she talked to OM and perhaps even saw him) ...

AND THEN THIS:

I have been VERY warm and engaging and loving-- and open with the touching. If I all of a sudden back off on that she's going to know something's wrong or that I suspect.

she may suspect that you know something, which is could be why her mood is down... my H told me i had tell-tale signs that he became aware of... and my H also had tell-tale signs that told me when he was aware of something... it's all nuiances... you both know each other really well... you are able to notice subtle degrees in distinction of verbiage and behavior in one another...

--artista

[Ginger1]

I am so sorry Jim. You have really been doing weathering the toughest part (piecing) like a champ.

Mind if I ask how you don't have hard evidence but you know it's happening again? Is it a gut feeling? Putting pieces together? Heard from someone else?

I know this doesn't help, but this is truly your W's loss. She had the chance for her husband to trust her in a situation where most guys would have booted her out the door.

Know that you have done everything you could in a gracious loving way.

[Coconut]

I have a difficult time not commenting on your thread and I don't know why.. maybe it's because I see so much of myself in your posts, well my old self, and I feel like I want to save you.

Here's the thing, if you know that she is talking to him, then you have to decide if you're going to continue on with this for another few years and have BD#3, #4, #5, etc.. or if you are going to change the dynamics.

If you continue with the "why is she acting like that", "I need to tell her...", "how do I act when/if..." then you are continuing this dynamic. If you want to change this dynamic, then you need to act in a way that is going to result in one of two outcomes:

1. She realizes that she lost you and wants you back so badly she is willing to do anything, and will let you know she is willing to do anything.

2. She realizes that she lost you and realizes its what she wants.

If you want to end the endless suffering you're in (and it is endless suffering), you need to completely let her go and only look at you. I didn't know what that meant until I physically separated from my ex and I suspect that you won't be able to do it either.

No conversations, no explanations, maybe a statement "I do not feel respected in our R, I do not feel that it is a partnership and I will not continue in a R where we don't come first and foremost in each others lives, Goodbye"...

[doodler]

I agree with Coconut. I've occasionally read your thread; all of the finessing drives me insane (yes, it's a short drive). I prefer the simple two-step method:

1. Boot the offending spouse out on their @ss. (It's okay to provide boxes and tape.)
2. Move on with your life.

And yes, that's very insensitive of me, but I'm an insensitive clod and I couldn't be an insensitive clod if I weren't insensitive. Sorry.

[sandi2]

Artista, I hope you will stay close by.

Just opened my IPad and saw all this movement on your thread. I actually wrote out a lengthy post yesterday....and then deleted it, b/c I realized I had mostly vented and speculated.....rather than offer something productive. I, too, felt like Don H said it much better. My concern was toward her lack/poor boundaries and the after work drinks with the doc. I was very suspicious about the other night, and work GF acting as a cover.....or lookout. I honestly was not thinking about her contacting OM.

Why do you feel the same OM is in the picture? Are you basing it on her moods and actions?

Did she have a session with the IC, or just ask about the app?

Has she continued to snuggle with you in bed, or has she pulled back?

For your own peace of mind, getting Intell would probably be smart.......so you would not always have that corner of doubt. Of course, it may not give you a timeframe, but you would know if she's seeing the OM again.

How should you interact with her until you get confirmation? If you are a good actor, don't change what you've been doing. Don't say anymore about staying for wine after work. Don't ask her when she's coming home, etc. Give that rope plenty of slack. If she's guilty, she'll hang herself......or get serious about IC, instead of just agreeing to keep you off her case. Don't question her about her whereabouts, times, etc. If stays late at work, don't even start playing the texting game with work GF or your W. IMHO, they are acting juvenile and trying to make you appear like the jealous H. Son't engage in a relationship talk........trying to catch her in a lie. Consider increasing your GAL. You can't get obsessed about "watching" her, deciding if she is or isn't in contact with OM.

She can read you very well, so you may not be able to cover your feelings until you get satisfactory Intell. I don't think you should wait too long, b/c I don't see it being a healthy way to exist.

If she is contacting OM, I think it's about time for another weekend stay with BFF.

In the meantime, I encourage you to place an urgent call to the IC. Talk to her about your strong suspicions. If nothing else, it should help you vent some emotional steam, and your information could be a heads-up for the IC/MC. And, don't stop the sessions..........not without proof she's seeing OM.

[artista]

Artista, I hope you will stay close by.

Has she continued to snuggle with you in bed...?

this is a sign... i used to do this for two reasons... one was to kind of appease my H... make him feel good about us...

the other was to read him... did he accept my snuggles, or footsies in bed? did it bring a smile to his face? that made me think all was fine and my betrayal had not been detected... it was as temp check...

if he wasn't playful back, then i had suspicion that he was suspicious of me... tell-tale signs...

if he pulled back, then i pulled back too, in a kind of pi$$y way... like: "if you're going to be mad, so am i." and i really felt like i had the right to be mad at him for being mad at me... and neither of us were exchanging words here, it was all subtle behaviors...

personally, hoosjim, i did not think she was back in touch with OM, but i did not count it out... again--it is in what she says and what she does not say... i did think she was leaving herself open to OM2, and i even thought (and think) she might like a long-distance EA at some point... i do not think she wants an on-going full-on relationship with OM... she wants the A with him, while still having the marriage...

and i think Sandy is right... that she will likely come up with a plan to get together with BFF soon...

your situation makes me see just how awful i was to H...

[DonH]

Like everyone else, I'm very sorry to hear the latest developments. Still I continue to believe I have a good sense about your sitch - perhaps because parts mirror my own from years ago.

So first off, I really think you need to be sure. You've not provided much in the way of details about why you think she's talking with OM again. The thing is, we can all be wrong even when we have a strong gut feeling. This is too important not to be positive so I strongly support you confirming it with proof before you confront her.

Once you have that proof, I think you should confront her, calmly, confidently and then say "I'm done" - but only if you truly are. If you are at that point and you totally drop the rope and walk away, I think that may bring her to her bottom. I remember that was the case last time you did this. She all out panicked. I agree with artista. She does not want a divorce and does not want a full on affair. She will get that strong feeling if you drop the rope. She will not want to lose you and the family. Only this time you must make her do the work and win you back.

I of course can't know this is how it will play out but I strongly feel it will. It did with me - for three years anyhow. The problem is, you may not want her back. We've seen that happen here in the past with others. This could really turn positive for you and will certainly get you out of limbo and W will have the ball in her own court. She's playing with fire and getting away with it. When she is caught red handed her feelings may well change and I'm betting on it.

That's my take.

[artista]

Its like she doesn't want to admit that things could be done better or differently because that would mean she'd been "wrong" about something.

there have been a few times where people have said it seems like she doesn't want to admit she is wrong... i do not believe that is the case... i think it's that she does not want to stop doing what she is doing... she doesn't want to check with you to see if you have plans for her birthday... she doesn't want to give up the wine hourS at work... she doesn't want to wear her wedding ring... she doesn't want to stop borderline inappropriate behavior with Doc... she wants the freedom to go see BFF every few months... she wants to keep some of that single-gal lifestyle...

even if you are wrong about her being in touch with OM at this time, she still has these desires, and she still has the attitude that goes with these desires, and it's a WW attitude... and that there is the thing... she is still thinking like a WW woman... it is evident in her interactions with you during and after the office wine social, and the discussion after the gym...

[hoosjim]

Moving very fast. Many many good ideas and suggestions and support. Thanks, all. Your kindness moves me.

she may suspect that you know something, which is could be why her mood is down..

She may, but not because of my demeanor. I have been steady to MORE warm in that regard. One of the "tells" was that she got real funny when i mentioned i could go to her gym with her (she is a member of a less "serious" gym-- more of a ladies/families place-- not that some ladies aren't very strong, dedicated, and impressive lifters/bodybuilders, but you know what i mean-- more of a social gym) next week because mine is going to be closed that week for renovations. She got REAL quiet about that. No "that would be a good idea", but no voiced objections either.. like she was nervous. It is on one or two of these gym trips (and she just started going to the "new" club which is, TA-DA, less than half a mile from OM's house come to find out-- there is also a Walmart across the street, which is where she bought her old straight talk phones and she has studiously avoided all walmarts since july.) I think that might have tipped her alarm bells, though.

The main thing that started my radar spinning was about a week and a half to two weeks ago, she started bringing up the "Well, i was
"done" at that point that I had the affair" or "the marriage was already over" or "The reason that that was able to happen was because i had reached that lonely desperate place that i was in"... not even a caveat of "I know what i did was wrong, though, and i own that. MC (and yall) had been adamant that that "narrative" or any others that sought to deflect blame for the affair was a very bad sign, and it had to go away if we were to believe she was on the right track. And it DID go away, for a couple of months at least, only to reappear just now.


Ill have more later. We went shooting at the range today. New experience for her, she was very excited. Like nothing in the world is wrong.

Tomorrow she is "going to the gym"... Her: "I am going to do an extended workout, both cardio and weights so i may be there for a while...

Also, she IS seeing bff. This weekend. Sunday she's going down to bff's home town an hour or so south of here to get "leg and bikini wax" for the first time, supposedly so she can get used to the procedure and do it again before our mexico vacation (if it happens.)

Another tidbit. Her work gf, who i actually trust, did something odd today. "Invited" me via phone text to join "Marco Polo" app, which is a video messaging app. Not sure how easy it is to track messages on that app, but, when scrolling down my contact list once i installed the app, who would you guess i saw with the little dot indicating they were a member of the app as well? OM, of course!! An app used primarily by tweens and twenty somethings. My W's 20-something work friend, my W, now me, and OM were the only ones on my contacts list who show as being on this thing...





And, finally, answers for Sandi2 again:

Did she have a session with the IC, or just ask about the app?

Has she continued to snuggle with you in bed, or has she pulled back?

She did NOT have her Follow up IC session, just asked about the app, and apparently still "bungled" the appointment. I told her to text MC to confirm, which she did-- confirmed that it hadn't gone through. W then said "she will try her best to work it in this week."

Last night, after the talk about the wine hours, she was a little more distant. But today hanging out and at the range she was very bubbly and touchy feely again. Touched me just about every chance she had in passing.





Artista, interesting idea, that it could be a different OM. The only hard intel i have (hearing bits and pieces of one side of a phoncon) could actually be with any man. It could also, if you stretch just a bit, be convo with a GF, but tone and tenor say prolly not. Also, was someone who was familiar with one of my kids' old GFs, with whom my kid hasn't been seeing for some time, so likely not someone new. But W had that sultry, unrestrained kind of laugh she used to get with OM, like she sounds like a completely different person. At one point she purrs "I was just remembering that night" (Making me think maybe A did go Phys at some point, about which i had been somewha doubtful.)

To all: it's pretty circumstantial and sketchy... but i know. I know. But, like i posted previously, i strongly believe that i need to be certain. I need a smoking gun.