Thanks, all, for the suggestions and encouragement. I agree, Nopkins, waiting to "see what will happen" all evening after planting the suggestion gives her all the control, but for now I can't really figure out what to do differently. I'd have a hard time asking for a direct answer, but that is part of what I intend to discuss with her - how she would like me to initiate, and the fact that I would appreciate a more direct response rather than having to wait all evening "to see how it turns out." I could handle a direct "I'm not really up to it tonight, could we do it tomorrow?" Maybe she just doesn't think I could handle that, or that it would lead to a fight.
The thing is, at the moment she doesn't seem to have the ability to be seduced, at least by me. It just doesn't seem to cross her mind that I would try to seduce her. So cuddling and kissing, in her mind, isn't linked with seduction, which doesn't leave me too many options other than to come out and ask. Mojo, I have absolutely NO idea how to be seductive with her. You're right, I think that kind of thing is WAY harder for a man, because society just doesn't teach us that men can be seductive, except in the James Bond mold, and that's not me at all, it just isn't. Plus, that would tend to get pretty expensive...
My main goal for this week was to ML more than once in the week, and also to see what happens if I push the "known boundaries" a bit. I think she is still very much in the mindset that LM is something "special" that "should" only happen once in a while, "when the time is right", whereas my viewpoint is that it is an important type of loving communication between two partners. As for the tone of the approach, I think it's difficult to strike just the right chord - stating the desire without sounding demanding or needy. "Can we ML tonight?" still puts too much control in HER hands, ditto with "Would you like to...?" (I think I know what her standard answer to THAT would be...), but "I would very much like to..." states the desire while leaving options open. That just says I would like to, with no "expectations" or "demands" on her, but you're right, it does require a response. I'm very much still figuring this stuff out.
Quote: It could be W is reacting to your differentiation by building a new barrier (day's delay) thus resulting in a new gridlock position.
That's very much what I'm thinking...
Quote: Both you and I know that your sister would greatly benefit from this forum but you'd be wise not to suggest it given the level of detail you provide in your posts!
Quote: As for the tone of the approach, I think it's difficult to strike just the right chord - stating the desire without sounding demanding or needy.
What if you just pick her up and start carrying her to the bedroom? Worst case scenario is she'll say something like "unhand me you scoundrel". Best case it might turn her on. At least it might give the two of you a laugh and lighten things up a bit and it would be very interesting to learn if a bold move like that might work with a LDW. I sometimes think that instead of tip-toeing down the forest path towards your Sleeping Beauty, you HD Prince Charmings need to burn down the f**king forest and ride your white charger for all it's worth. Of course this is based on the assumption that there is nothing inherently different in the sexuality of women who are LD vs. HD.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: What if you just pick her up and start carrying her to the bedroom? Worst case scenario is she'll say something like "unhand me you scoundrel".
LOL! Now THERE'S an image! Not sure how that would go over, exactly, but a complicating factor here is that with kids around, it's kinda necessary to wait for the end of the evening for any such shenannigans anyway.
Quote: and it would be very interesting to learn if a bold move like that might work with a LDW. I sometimes think that instead of tip-toeing down the forest path towards your Sleeping Beauty, you HD Prince Charmings need to burn down the f**king forest and ride your white charger for all it's worth.
That's an interesting thought... I just might see if I can think of any OTHER such approaches that might represent a "bold" move other than physically carrying her (which would be somewhat difficult and possibly even dangerous, given both our physical condition at present...).
Well, yesterday W was back into full-blown allergy mode. For one thing, she mowed the lawn yesterday, and later said that she should've taken a shower afterward, because of all the grass and stuff on her after mowing the lawn. Washing that stuff off would probably have lessened her symptoms. So as we were cleaning up the kitchen after supper, she was telling me how miserable she felt, and I said "If you're really not up to it tonight, we can wait till the weekend." I also mentioned that on any given night, if I've indicated I'd like to ML, and she's just not feeling up to it, she should just say so, rather than make me wait till the end of the evening, or making a big display of how poorly she's feeling. I said that the other night, as soon as I said I'd like to, it seemed to me that she tensed up and wasn't into it, but she didn't say anything until bedtime. She said that she had initially thought she could, but that she had just gotten too tired. So last night I basically "gave her the night off", but come Friday night, I'll once again indicate my desire. In fact, I may just operate on assumption, and take a much more direct approach. One thing I hope to do at some point is to break her dependence on having to be "clean as a whistle" by showering before sex. If we can get rid of all that overhead, she may find it easier to ML on any given night, and at any rate it would be good if there could be a LOT less time between "the decision" and fulfilling it.
Quote: One thing I hope to do at some point is to break her dependence on having to be "clean as a whistle" by showering before sex
My 2 cents. Don't try to do this. Even HDW like me have trouble with this to some degree and need to be extremely aroused (or outdoors ) to not think about this to some extent. Don't get me wrong, I think you're right that she shouldn't be overly concerned, but this could be a very tough issue to confront and there are probably lots of issues that are more important to you that would be easier for her to deal with.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I'm just thinking that a few strategic moments with a washcloth can take care of the "tough issues". I'm also thinking that her insistence on cleanliness is probably a form of self-rejection. She has made some progress there, I think. Not so long ago, her "routine" had to include a long bath beforehand, to "relax and get in the mood." She didn't require this last weekend, and imho it made things a whole lot better. If she really feels she needs a shower ahead of time, I'm thinking we might be able to work that into the early-evening schedule, so there's not a lot of overhead at bedtime. Just some things for us to work on...
And you're right, there ARE other issues for us to work on, and I think those will surface once we get the frequency up to where patterns can start to surface. That's my major focus at the moment - in order to get those issues in the open, there needs to be enough activity to produce the required data...
Most women like to be extra clean before sex. It is a way to prepare for the act, and in the woman's mind, lessen the chance for any unpleasant odors. She has time to relax and get in the mood.
Girls DO notice when they come into the boys dorm room and it smells like old socks and stale cigars. They can't believe that we wouldn't :-)
There is nothing wrong with great animal sweaty sex, but MM is right, it has to be the right mood and time.
You haven't smelled anything until you have been in a room (unair-conditioned) filled with people having sex..... It is, ah, unique.
I suggest you let her have her bath. Maybe you should even light a few candles for her, lay out her towels and some scented bath oil. Then leave her alone until she is done - unless, of course, she invites you to join her.
:-) -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote: Maybe you should even light a few candles for her, lay out her towels and some scented bath oil. Then leave her alone until she is done - unless, of course, she invites you to join her.
Nice thoughts, and maybe when the kids have all moved out, that would be a possible scenario, but not until then... our house is not large, and the kids (and the layout of the house) afford us VERY little privacy. However, in about 7 weeks we will be spending the night in a fancy hotel as part of our 25th-anniversary celebrations, and I do anticipate a VERY nice time, which just MAY involve a communal bath... that would be NICE! Also, later in the summer we'll be on holiday, and again sharing a private room, and again, that would be something I would VERY much look forward to...
I like being moderately clean (definitely no grass cuttings on me) but I don't care about washing away all the good smell and moisture that has accumulated. I personally HATE having sex after a shower when everything is stripped clean. It seems antiseptic to me. The p*ssy smell is very much a part of the experience for me, just as touch and taste and the rest are.
Although body odor is a whole 'nother issue to me. Thankfully, H is extremely sensitive to hygiene and I don't ever have to worry about that.
I'm back in ATL now. I have to agree with Mojo. Worrying about her hygene "overhead" is just like trying to fix one of her hangups which, as I've learned the hard way, is wrong. If she commits to being with you, then she will need to make the time to deal with this or get over it on her own. In time, she might start to relax a little but it will need to be her own effort.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
) to not think about this to some extent. Don't get me wrong, I think you're right that she shouldn't be overly concerned, but this could be a very tough issue to confront and there are probably lots of issues that are more important to you that would be easier for her to deal with.