I am writing to obtain an opinion from those of you who know situations like mine and would be willing to share their wisdom.
I'm a mid-30s husband whose wife would like to get a divorce. We have four kids, 2-8 years old. We had struggled throughout 2016 with various conflicts (indeed throughout the 12 years we've been married), none of which seem very difficult to me to resolve. Our difficulties lay in control, anger and communication, primarily defensiveness. In November of 2016 I had a mental health crisis, and she saw a counselor who seeded the idea in her mind that a divorce was an option. That month we stopped sleeping in the same house. Since that time we continue to share living space during the day and typically see each other on an average day. We alternate nights in the house so that the kids stay in the same house. During the mental health crisis (caused by lithium toxicity) I said some things that hurt her, and this was the catalyst for our separation. Since December 2016 she has maintained that our relationship is not repairable. I have worked on myself and am a very, very different person than I was 18 months ago.
She believes that marriage is a social construct rather than a "for better or for worse" and faithfulness in marriage is decided by the individuals rather than by a moral standard. She had a strong emotional relationship (possibly physical) with someone in the summer, and for the last few months has been involved (living with) with another person. In January we had an argument after which she said she could not continue the marriage.
The combination of the following reasons makes the prospect of holding on to the marriage and letting her ride out her mid life crisis very difficult to fathom:
1. She is deceitful, and frequently tells minor lies, and has told a number of major lies. 2. She manipulates me. 3. Last year she took out $8K in debt in my name, and used our emergency fund to purchase a motorcycle, without my knowledge or consent. 4. She is irresponsible with her finances (overdraft, excessive debt), making large purchases that affect her ability to pay other obligations (day care). 5. She acts entitled. She has been sleeping with the man every night for the last week, and this morning walked in the house and asked if I had bought ground coffee for her. 6. She does not carry her load with the children. I do everything for them: homework, dressing them, laundry (90%), making lunches, making my daughter's hair, taking them to school, cooking meals, teaching/training them. I force the children to sit down and eat a proper meal, but on evenings when I come home after supper, she lets the kids snack instead of feeding them a proper supper. This has been more or less happening for two years, but has gradually gotten worse. 7. When she's home, she's on her phone or computer instead of spending time with the kids. When I'm not around she dumps the kids in bed without their normal bedtime routine. 8. She doesn't keep commitments or promises. 9. When she makes mistakes she blames me or other people.
I've let her go and hold nothing she has done to me against her although I am angry about her neglect of the children. We are friendly. We've had perhaps 6 arguments in the last year. I literally have let go of her in every way. Since last summer I have stopped trying to control or influence her in any way. I say absolutely nothing about the lies, debt, entitlement, irresponsibility with the kids. My family says I'm enabling her behavior. I feel like I'm the "friend guy" from the divorcebusting.com testimonials.
If I set boundaries, she blows right through them. I've had to pay the day care recently. She was supposed to watch the kids one evening so I could go to a very important party, and I had given her multiple reminders. Instead she made plans and hired a babysitter neither of us know. She borrows money from me frequently (half the time repays) despite having a fair salary. If I ask her to help with my daughter's hair in the mornings, she agrees, but does it one morning, then stops doing the following day. These are just a few examples.
Mentally and physically I cannot continue carrying the load I've been carrying for the last 15 months. While it would be difficult to parent alone, when she's around it's like having another kid in the house and it's very stressful. I feel like divorce would set firm boundaries that she would be legally obligated to keep.
She is going to school for law enforcement and has her sights set on a master's degree. It appears that her life has a trajectory that doesn't include me, or the family. I feeling like there isn't much hope for the relationship in the short term and we have been moving forward with a collaborative divorce. However, having read some of Michelle Weiner-Davis' material I am open to trying to keep the marriage alive.
This is a very long post, but if anyone could provide me with wisdom I would greatly appreciate it.
Should I hang on? If I stall on the divorce, what should I do about the load I'm carrying?
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Notes: I follow all of Sandi's rules except #6 and #33. I desperately need help from my family with the kids and also mental support. She has had no contact with my family since November 2016 and refuses to do anything that involves them.
I've gone dark for a long time, with the exception of acknowledging her birthday and Christmas. I treat her as I would treat an acquaintance.
I've become much better at validation, but it was a struggle early on.
I have always been a super involved dad and taken significant responsibility in the house. I didn't do anything for myself; that has changed in the last year.
"For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife" is powerful - thanks!
I've worked hard to detach. I suppose I rescue her more than I should. I'm not sure what to do when she says she can't pay the day care, or says she doesn't have money for gas though...
I buy the food that she eats.
I haven't pursued in many months (9?), other than a card for Valentine's day and a gift for Christmas. I will occasionally purchase chocolate or other things that she likes.
Her dad had multiple affairs and she claims he sexually abused her.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Im sorry that youre here. You wont find a better place out here.
That said, if Im reading correctly, your wife has been carrying on an affair for over a year while living with OM and you are still in this night-on night-off routine. What is the long term plan here? Are you just waiting for her to tell you what shes going to do? Or do you have your own ambitions?
As for the finances, what is your strategy? How are you allowing her to have access to your money while engaged in a relationship with someone else?
As for parenting, what is your long term plan? I hope you are documenting her behaviors in preparation of any future custody discussion.
How about your GAL. You say you are a different person from 18 months ago. Can you share more details?
Originally Posted By: WillyO
I say absolutely nothing about the lies, debt, entitlement, irresponsibility with the kids. My family says I'm enabling her behavior. I feel like I'm the "friend guy" from the divorcebusting.com testimonials.
Do you disagree with them? To me, this sounds so incredibly enabling. Shes trashing your name and credit and you are just letting it happen? And being OK with any kind of parenting? How is that setting up a good co-parenting relationship going forward?
Originally Posted By: WillyO
If I set boundaries, she blows right through them.
Do you have any examples? If she 'blows right through them', then they arent really boundaries. They are set to control her.
Originally Posted By: WillyO
She borrows money from me frequently (half the time repays) despite having a fair salary.
And why do you keep saying OK?
Originally Posted By: WillyO
I feel like divorce would set firm boundaries that she would be legally obligated to keep.
I disagree that DIVORCE will do that. If you cant enforce them, then nothing is going to change if your legal status changes.
To me, it seems like you are willing to lay down and be a doormat in hopes that your wife will appreciate all youve done for her. That isnt likely to happen unless the other relationship blows up and she comes running to you as a fallback plan.
The one I focused on immediately, what Amoafwl already mentioned. WHY WHY WHY if she is so bad with money, and only pays you back half the time, do you still lend her money?
I think you are a bit of an enabler. Obviously a few things you have to bail her out, like the daycare. But anything that you are not on the hook for you need to stop rescuing her! If she overdraws her account, oh well. If she blows all her money and has not gas money. Oh well. Stop rescuing her. Let her fail. Read Sandi's recent post in the Re-detaching thread about what detachment really is.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Wow- great questions to help me think things through.
I really don't know what my ambitions are. Healthy kids I suppose? I have no desire to continue the marriage. The only thing that is causing me to put the brakes on divorce is the kids. But feelings are fickle. Given the right atmosphere feelings can return.
I've given her money because I've viewed her as my spouse and that's what we're supposed to do for each other. (I suppose that's turned me into an enabling doormat.)
While she's not healthy and is busy (boyfriend, school), I would like to have primary custody of the kids, since I feel I can provide more stability.
18 months ago I was a fearful and somewhat controlling man who always put others' needs before mine. We were codependent; we never did anything apart from each other and therefore had a very poor social life. Since that time I've become more outgoing, I'm not afraid to try new things, I buy things for myself, I go out for dinner and movies with friends, and become more confident. I'm working on GAL still but I've made major steps compared to where I was.
After thinking about your question, I don't really have any boundaries. I suppose expectations about her being a good parent, keeping her promises, and repaying loans aren't boundaries but are what they are: expectations. After reading the responses, I think I need to set a boundary with the finances. Also, set boundaries for when she is allowed to come to the house. She is kind and friendly so it's not like I'm treated badly.
I haven't valued myself or the kids enough to take a stand. I've been trying to serve and be kind in the hopes that the marriage would be restored, but it sounds like that's not the right approach.
I will work on stopping rescuing her.
How would you recommend dealing with the irresponsible parenting issues?
It takes two people for a marriage to work, 1 person for it to fail.
You sound like an incredible husband and father. It sounds like you have done all anyone could possibly do.
Love yourself the way you do others. Someone can only disrespect you if you allow it.
Would you want any one of your children to be be living the type of marriage and relationsjip that you are ? How would you advise them if their spouse was doing this?
I know you want to keep it together for the kids, but I will tell you my son is so much better off not witnessing the unhealthy dynamic between me and his father.
I know you want to keep it together for the kids, but I will tell you my son is so much better off not witnessing the unhealthy dynamic between me and his father.
I have a question related to this. I hear this all the time. Dr. Phil is known for saying "Kids would rather be from a broken home than in a broken home."
Maybe all that is true, but isn't the ideal for the kids a healthy marriage between his/her parents?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
