Newbie In Need Of Guidance #2

[rminer]

sandi, you posted while I was typing, so no I didn’t see your second post.

I am going to respond to both in this post.

I wonder if the laid back spouse begins to rely upon the outgoing spouse's personality when meeting new people, going to new events, etc. Do you know what I mean? Perhaps the quiet, laid back H feels that his W's personality will cover for his tendency to withdraw, shy away or not engage as enthusiastically, not appear as friendly or bubbly, or doesn't start up conversations with people he barely knows. Maybe you can answer this for me.

My W and I don’t go many places to meet new people, but yes, that can/does happen. When I am not in my element, I tend to sit back and assess people before I engage. This does make me appear not as friendly and I know this. Once I know what I am dealing with, I can start a conversation, but it will take a little while.

When you are with your WW in the presence of your children, do not act as if you are shunning their mother. Don't ignore her, but neither should you be totally focused on her. Treat her respectfully........but it doesn't mean you have to stand there as she verbally belittles you, or something of that nature.

I am glad to hear you say this as this is essentially how I have been handling things. We don’t talk a ton, but if she wants to join the conversation, I include her. She has been trying to join more and more conversations as of late.

Things are very civil now. She doesn’t attack or belittle. I have only had one instance in the past few weeks that I have had to draw a line with her, and that went well.

I encourage you to be careful when speaking about your WW. It is not a contest to see which side the kids choose.

I say nothing negative at all. I am letting the kids make up their own minds on this. I have outright told them I don’t want them to choose a side as their relationships with their mother is important. They are seeing what she is doing and are very upset with her about it.

If the kids are feeling the strain between you and the WW (and I'm sure they must), try to make plans with them for something fun on your day off work. Yes, you will need to put the house on hold......but your family is more important at the moment. No matter their age or gender, they need time with daddy.

They are feeling the strain quite a bit and have been striking up conversations about this sitch with me on their own. D14 and S8 have been asking me to do things with them like never before and D14 has come out and said that she needs to “get away” from the house. Her relationship with my W has soured quite a bit, so I am making it a point to take her somewhere a couple of times per week even if it is just for an hour or two.

I can’t really put the house on hold for financial reasons. We are living in it, so I can work on it most any time I like. To make more time for the kids I am limiting myself to days off only. On my days off I am getting up earlier and working four hours or so. I am finished by noon, leaving the rest of the day free.

I had some relatives who built their own house, and it took forever. The W told me they nearly D over it.

I KNOW this is part of the issue.

I want you to interact with your WW as if she's a checkout clerk. At least, as best that you can, under the circumstances. When you see her, smile and speak. It is fine to show a level of friendliness. Remember, you are Mr. Personality. If she is wearing something pretty, it's okay to compliment her. If she is cooking dinner, it's fine to comment about how good it smells, or tastes. Just make short, and don't keep on keeping on. That would be classified as overkill. The other thing to remember with complementing her is not to get too intimate or sexual, since she has OM. IMHO, I would not joke about sex, or imply you want to have sex with her.

In the 37 rules, if you are the one who usually starts conversations with your spouse, then don't initiate conversations, but wait for the spouse to start. The reason I included that rule is b/c many H's would talk too much to their WW. They would try to keep her engaged in conversation (either on the phone or face to face) b/c they saw it as way to get closer or fix the problems, when actually it was pushing her away. Most times, it would lead to a R talk, which needs to be avoided by the LBS. Those H's were too emotionally attached, and the WW sees it as clingy, needy, and unattractive. Most H's I see come to the board, say way too many words when they interact with their WW.......or they think the 37 rules are suggesting they don't say anything at all. The rules were designed to guide newcomers, until the couple has reconciled. If you have any questions about them, please ask me. In the meantime, you can say something to your W, but don't initiate conversations. You know the difference. BTW, if you aren't applying the 37 rules, I encourage you to do so.

I am SO glad you included this! I did take this in the 37 Rules as “sit in silence until she speaks” and that is not what I have been doing. It didn’t make sense to me to do it. We live under the same roof and the kids see how we interact, so I thought I was destroying this rule. How I have been handling it is by acknowledging her when I see her in the morning or at night. Maybe a follow up question about something benign that she doesn’t really have to put forth much effort in answering. Sometimes she will try to start a conversation about household things, which I engage in. They have morphed in to other conversations a few times, but I allow her to do most of the talking. My goal was just as you said – to not let her think I am ignoring her. We have not gotten close to an R conversation.

when you start going out, she'll expect you to tell her where, when, what, with whom, and when you will be home.

The few times I have gone out she hasn’t said a word about it. The only times I have gotten a reaction is the first time I went out and came home at 3am (forgot about this one in my last post) and the first time I wore cologne out (I NEVER wear cologne anymore). I got a very cold reception the following day on both of those, but nothing verbal.

I hope you won't misunderstand anything I've said. I am not telling you to "nice" your WW back, b/c it won't work. I am simply trying to give you a picture of how to interact with her. Has any of this helped you? Do you have questions?

Yes, it has helped a lot. I am doing the 37 Rules, but the interacting with her was the part I thought I was doing wrong because I do talk to her. I don’t initiate conversations, but I will say things to her first so she doesn’t feel that I am mad or ignoring her. When she speaks, I respond and let her keep talking if she feels like it.

However, I want you to stop obsessing about the confrontation. If you don't, then all this other stuff I have put out here on your thread the past two days will go in one ear and out the other, b/c all you can focus on is confronting her.

I don’t mean to obsess over it, but I do think of it a lot. That is the part of the whole process that scares me the most. That conversation will most likely determine the course of my M. If I do it wrong, it’s game over. I’m trying to prepare myself to do it right.

I am listening to everything you say and will be doing what I haven’t already started. I’m a planner, so I tend to gather information and prepare ahead of time, that’s all. I’m not going to confront her yet.

I think your male ego wants her to know that you know what she"s doing.

Hell yes it does! Honesty is something I demand from everyone around me – especially my family. This deception is driving me insane, especially since she thinks she is pulling one over on me. The lies are the part that I think bug me the most at this point. Once the details come out I’m sure that will change.

Do you see it as ending the A?

No, I don’t. Not at this point in time at least.

How will she see you returning to the fun loving guy you once were? Did you even read my second post?

I did, but after you posted your second post. I was typing while you were posting.

Your attitude and general lighter mood, & friendliness will send out more messages than you know.

This I have been faking and doing a pretty good job of it. Since I have been hanging out with the kids more, the attitude has been more sincere. I have noticed changes in her too that I am hoping are because of this. I was going to post about that today, but I am running out of time, so I will tomorrow.

Do you have something fun planned for this weekend? What are the ages of your kids? Better yet, why not give the information about you and W and the kids in your signature line.

Nothing planned at the moment. I gave D14 and S8 the job of deciding what they wanted to do Saturday night when I get home from work and Sunday afternoon. They are getting my whole weekend.

Kids are S23, D21, D18, D14, S8 – all in the signature line. So you don’t have to go look it up, D21 and D18 are both full time students commuting to college with full time jobs still living at home. S23 was a junior in college when he had to drop out due to medical reasons. Holds a full time job that is very willing to work around his medical issues. He still lives at home only because his condition will not allow him to live on his own at this point.

What you may have misunderstood in my previous post, was my reference to you spending so much time on the building project. Maybe I have it wrong, but aren't you doing that after you get off your regular job every day?

No, not any more. When we were trying to get in to the house I was, but since we moved in a few years ago, I only work on my days off. That plus normal maintenance and chores chew up a lot of time.

I don't you intended for this to sound like an excuse, but it kind of does.

You are right about this. Not intended, but does sound like an excuse. My work schedule is about 50 hrs/wk. 45 minute drive each way. Leave for work about 8am. Three nights per week I am not typically home until 9pm, two days I will be home usually by 5 or 6 pm. Off two days, usually Sunday and Wednesday.


That doesn’t leave a ton of extra time for much of a social life without being an absentee father, which I don’t want to happen. Staying out too late I don’t want to do either since this is one of the kid’s beef with my W. Occasionally they wouldn’t care because I never do it. Consistently, they would see me doing the same as her. I’m just going to have to walk a fine line on this one.

I don't know what you mean by her losing the kids. Maybe you'll explain.

I will explain in further detail in another post, but the kids are turning on her and are all but through with her.

If you want to really get her stirred up, wait till later in the evening, then put on your cologne and head out.

Fight fire with fire? This is exactly what she does. I have learned to ignore it, not asking questions or seeming to notice.

A lot of hard working men become their job. They lose themselves in their work. I am embarrassed to admit that I had many years under my belt before I realized that this is how most men show their love for their family. He is the provider and protector in the family. He wants them to have as good a life as he can afford. So, his whole life is work, work, work. Unfortunately, some wives forget to let her H know how much he is appreciated.

I am glad you understand this because this describes my life perfectly. Although my W used to tell me she was proud that I was such a hard worker, I don’t think she really understood why I was. Funny thing is, after having some heart to hearts with my kids, they knew why I did it and appreciate all I did. I never expected to hear that from them since most of it was “behind the scenes” so to speak.

I am encouraged that you followed up on my suggestion of the self-evaluation. This post is ending much better than I thought reading the first few words. I am not the best writer, and I don't mind answering anything you don't understand. I don't know all the answers, by any means........I am referring to something I have said that may not make sense.

I did and am still doing self-evaluation and let me tell you, it is painful. To really step back and look at your faults is not a fun thing to do, but I know in the end it will be worth it. I know I have never been perfect, but I can see many areas I can improve that I would have never seen before coming here. I guess I am still a work in progress.

Everything you are telling me is making sense. I have been making a list of questions that I will post in the near future. Hopefully you can answer some of them for me.

That's what I suspected, which is a good answer. I have seen some men who fit your dating history of not having an abundance of girlfriends......and they just turn to mush at the thought of losing a woman that treating him horribly.

I’m not as much of a mush ball as I think you might think I am. She is the only one (outside of my daughters) who has ever caused me to melt, but I do have my limits. I truly hate the thought of losing her – she is the only one I have ever seen myself going through life with – but I am not going to be treated this way either. I grew up watching this movie and that was enough for me. Don’t need to see it again.

I am not as cold hearted as I might sound at times. I have had divorce all around me, so I've seen good results and bad results.

I don’t think you are cold hearted. I think just the opposite. Why else would you spend your personal time here trying to help people who have played such a big role in screwing things up for themselves?

Sometimes you are blunt, but never taken as cold.

I do think you feel I am a PIA at times, which I don't mean to be. Maybe I am being overly cautious, asking too many questions that don't need to be asked or simply getting ahead of myself. I just like to prepare and know what I am up against. I'm your typical over-analyzer.

So, we are going to support you as best that we can, okay?

I do appreciate it, sandi. You are part of a great group here and I’m not sure if I could save this M or myself without your advice.