Tim, A quick look at "My Home" and I see you've "got your ears on" (good buddy). It's 11:40 pm here so I guess you are still at work. I spend a lot of my time on this forum when I should be working too - and I'm on here right now when I should be in bed with DW so I'll say goodnight and good luck with your project. I await your success reports with considerable anticipation. SD
Quote: I basically "took the weekend off", and read almost non-stop - David Schnarch's Passionate Marriage. I've managed to read the first 9 chapters, and I'm on page 277 at the moment. Whew - what a weekend!
What an adventure this is!
Hello Tim!
Cattlekid here...been a while but I have some time to play on the boards tonight. I have been reading the companion to this book - "Resurrecting Sex". I agree...it's a hard slog but it is very interesting. The ideas of emotional fusion and gridlock really speak to me. I've just started reading the chapter on "holding on to yourself" and a plan is starting to ferment..like you, I think I have a good idea then after a few more pages of reading, the idea doesn't seem to be so good any more.
I will have to keep my eye out for PM at the used book store (which is where I stumbled across RS when looking for SSM - enough TLAs there? ).
Hey, Cattlekid - good to see you! How's it goin'? Thanks for stopping by!
Quote: I will have to keep my eye out for PM at the used book store...
Heck, just order it from Amazon. Since it's not "hot/new", it's not that expensive. I guarantee it will be worth every penny. When I have to return the copy I've been reading to the library, I plan on ordering a copy (or maybe two!!).
Quote: Hey, Cattlekid - good to see you! How's it goin'? Thanks for stopping by!
Howdy! Things are fair to middlin' around here. DH got hired on at his job full time (was a temp for three months) which is good - opportunities for overtime and commission. Money situation is downhill, which makes cattlekid crabby when she has to pay the bills each week. Communication is as strained as ever although I have taken hairdog's advice and started standing up for myself...but after reading the particular few pages in RS today, I realize that I only stand up for myself when I am at my worst, instead of at my best. Something I need to work on...
An interesting thing happened this morning. I'm not quite sure what it means, if anything.
I make my lunch every day. Along with a sandwich and a drink, I've been packing a bananna and an apple every day for about the past year. I eat the bananna around 11:00, and the apple in the late afternoon. W knows I do this, because she buys the fruit, and she keeps replenishing them. We've even had many, many conversations about apples, because she knows I prefer Delicious apples, and sometimes we are both frustrated by the quality of the apples she's able to find. If an apple (or several of them) turns out to be too hard or otherwise not quite "up to snuff", I discuss it with her, and she appreciates that because she then tries different ones or buys them from a different store next time. I don't "blame her for the apple", but she knows how much I enjoy them and wants to get the best ones for me. So the point, so far, is that she is VERY aware that I bring an apple and a bananna every day.
This morning, we were pretty rushed, because S18 needed to get to school 15 minutes earlier than usual, which meant we had to get through our morning routine more quickly. She usually makes lunches for the kids, but this morning neither one needed a lunch, so that worked out. She emptied the dishwasher while I prepared my lunch. Before I had finished, however, it became obvious that we were going to run out of time, so she offered to finish packing my lunch so I could brush my teeth and we could get out the door on time.
After dropping S18 off at school, I had hoped I might take advantage of the time alone in the car to tell her a bit about PM and ask her to read it with me, but it's a short drive, and her normal chit-chat took up all available time. As I became aware that I wouldn't have time to bring up my subject, I caught myself starting to feel a bit annoyed, and took a deep breath and got past it. My schedule is just that, my schedule. I realized I could wait another day, and the world wouldn't end. As she dropped me off at work, I kissed her goodbye, then retrieved my briefcase, laptop and lunch from the back.
As I picked up my lunch, I noticed that it contained only the sandwich and drink. I made a little surprised noise, and when she asked me what was up, I said "Oh - no bananna and no apple." but just in a tone of "I wasn't expecting that" - not in a negative or accusing tone.. I was just taken by surprise because the lunch bag felt different. She was immediately sorry, and very apologetic, and asked if I wanted her to bring the fruit later in the morning. I said "No, that's okay.. I'll survive." My tone was again, more self-deprecating and humorous, not the slightest bit put out. I wanted to make sure she didn't feel I was angry with her, which I wasn't.
Now... that's the interesting part. I could have attached all kinds of meaning to that moment, but it never even occurred to me. I have in the past gotten worked up over the fact that whereas she makes the kids' lunches, she never makes my lunch, even when her lunch-making duties are lighter than usual. I think had this happened a week ago, I would have told myself all kinds of things about how she never pays any attention to me, how she KNOWS FULL WELL that I bring fruit in my lunch every day (after all, she buys the stuff, and we discuss it regularly, so WTF?), and I would have seen it as JUST ONE MORE EXAMPLE of how I get the short end of the stick. But this morning, there was NONE of that - just "Oh, well, I'll survive. She forgot because she was in a rush, that's all. She was not doing it to spite ME."
A short time later, she called me and again offered to bring an apple and bananna mid-morning, which I accepted. She called me just before she left home, and I waited what felt like about the length of time it would take her to get here, and when I went downstairs to meet her, she was just pulling up as I was coming out the door. Talk about timing!
Anyway, I'm not sure what meaning I want to attach to these events, other than that I'm learning how to deal with myself, and be more accepting of her.
Well, I've made a start. This morning on the way to work, when we were alone in the car, I told W that tonight I want to discuss with her "that book I've been reading this week." I've learned that if I want to get into a discussion like this with her, I need to "set the stage", or "make an appointment", otherwise the evening will go by and I won't get an opportunity. Very predictably, her anxiety level immediately shot through the roof. BINGO! Her first comment was along the lines of "See, I knew it. You latch onto one thing, and get obsessed with it, and... all of a sudden the pressure's on. I've been reading all kinds of books, trying to figure out 10 things at once, and I've been feeling like we're working together on something, and things are getting better, and then here you go again, and I'm feeling overwhelmed." I said I understood that, but I feel it's important for both of us to read this book together, and I mentioned my belief that when she starts reading it, it will help her with her feelings of being overwhelmed, and help us focus on solving the important issues. Even though I count it as an act of cowardice on my part, I was glad the drive was so short, and that I was getting out of the car to go to work, because I'm pretty sure I'm not yet far enough along to be able to hold onto myself very well while maintaining close proximity in the face of this. At the very least, I would have trouble with self-soothing, and in our first few discussions, I bet I'll find it necessary to break off, go somewhere and cool down, regroup and return. In fact, I may mention to W that we should make an agreement right in the beginning that if either of us feels overwhelmed and needs to take a break, that we can do that, and the other will not take that as a sign of rejection or not wanting to discuss, but just that we need to cool down so we can have a rational discussion. I also know that when (if) she begins reading the book, her anxiety will reach exponential proportions, at least at first, because "that first chapter is a doozy." I'll be wanting to ask her to keep an open mind as she reads it, and not tune out, although that will be her immediate reaction, I'm pretty sure. Who knows, though, she might surprise me. I'm not expecting a very peaceful Friday evening, tho...
I think that's an excellent start. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to discuss ideas with your spouse about ways to have a better relationship. Any "logical" person would say "gee honey, that's a nice idea". It is becoming so clear that our Ws are throwing tantrums over something else (i'm tired of the 'd' word) but having PM let us know that "it IS a typical response" really makes the it easy to keep a "professional distance" as your W starts "flooding".
I say good job. I think completing these types of exercises are "success stories". Isn't it funny what we consider a success now? Getting laid IS a success and hopefully a nice byproduct, but the fun in this process is that we (hold on...metaphor alert) "are adding and changing the position the rocks upstream to fix the erosion that's happening a mile downstream."
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
I'm just throwing something out here for you both to consider. I'm not saying it is 'right.'
The whole premise of the book is to 'become your own person.' And while I think we can support one another, I think it is important to not let this board become the 'soother' of anxious feelings.
I'd like to suggest something here. I think we can ask for clarification on 'derviving meaning from the book,' but as far as asking each other how we think we're doing in respective situations, it may be important to throw it back onto the 'asker of the question.' You know?
After all, it doesn't matter what anyone else here thinks. What matters most is what YOU (we as individuals) think.
Perhaps neither one of you realize the incredible courage and fortitude it takes to stand on your own two feet. While that doesn't sound difficult, the two of you (myself included), are already experiencing the pain of differentiation. This isn't a walk through the park guys, and the more 'fused' you are, the more anxious and uncomfortable the feelings of seperation are going to be.
).