So another update. . .i have been DBing and 180ing and detaching, GALing like crazy and validating. . .after she told me she wanted a D, I told her that I hope that whatever happens, I understand and I can see it from her POV (inside I was hurting like hell) I kept my dignity and said if she would like to talk I am ready to listen. On Friday night we discussed what to do in the interim period, and we agreed that until her choices were discussed we would not tell the children, and we agreed that we would continue to "be together" in front of the Children. We then had 2 lovely days out- and in the evening I GALd, on Saturday night she accused me of having an affair (which I am not) and I said "I would not and have never lied to you" which is the truth. The next day (Sunday) I said as agreed I would be taking the Children to Church and as we agreed if she wanted to come she was welcome to do so. When we got there the OM was there, so with a huge amount of dignity there was no reaction from me, no glances or looks, I just focused on my children. We then went out to lunch and I went the Gym in the evening to GAL. I validated by saying how I can see it must have been difficult for her, and I left. When I came back she was in floods of tears and- knowing I cannot own her feelings- I simply said if you want to talk, I am ready to listen. She then opened up a bit and asked for time. So as to fully understand what she was asking of me, I asked her what she meant by time and I told her I accepted her wishes and I can see how my behaviour in the past had orchestrated our current situation. She then told me the R counsellor had told her that things would not change overnight and only time and consistent change of behaviours would prove it one way or another. I then agreed, and validated by saying "I can see that and why you have every right to see that, and I am working through my issues with the support I need, and I can only focus on fixing myself right now and continuing to be the best daddy I can be"
Later on she asked me if I would like a sandwich and I said "if you are making one then that would be great, thank you" I said I was making a cup of tea and asked her if she would like one and she did, then something really weird happened. . She held out her hand as if to want to hold my hand. . I initially pulled back and looked at her, in my head I didnt want to seem needy or that I was pursuing, but she then stepped forward and hugged me and held me close for what seemed like ages. . It felt right, but confusing at the same time. But there was definitely feeling there. . I resisted the urge to kiss her and get intimate, and then later on she went to bed . .looked back to see if I was joining her but in my mind until she wants a proper R chat, I dont want her thinking I am a puppy dog. So we slept apart- until she tells me what she wants I am not going to initiate closeness. This morning she did the same, she reached out and hugged me. I am at a prearranged GAL activity tonight. . .and I certainly don't want to rush into any sort of piecing until I am certain that there may be a chance of the R reconcillation.
Any ideas? Have I messed up or is continuing to Detach and GAl and 180 still the way forward?
M(41), W(37) S (6) D (4) S (2) M-8, T-12 W "I don't love you, I am in love with another man" "I don't know you anymore"
Another update and I think I now need to go totally dark and detach big style.
She opened up a little last night and said she wants whats best for the Children and I agreed, and after the hug on Sunday (I stupidly took that as a positive sign)
She said that we would take it one day at a time and as I am sleeping in a seperate bed this for me is the space element.
I then done a lot of validation and was saying how I could see how from her POV the mess we were in seems to big to fix and I said that moving forward we would put the children first, and not fight or argue or criticise each other, and that if that if she did I would walk away and if in front of the children I would take them out of the situation too, she agreed. I also said that with regard to the OM she would need to cut ties with him including FB etc. And she said she would "tomorrow" she was very defensive and I asked if they had been messaging that day and she said they had and I reiterated that those with nothing to hide, hide nothing. So I asked her if I could see the messages- her face gave the game away- so (the phone I pay for is enabling her to continue her R with him) so I told her how hurtful it was that even now she was not prepared to be truthful with me, she then started shouting and calling me a bully. This morning I reflected and could see my actions in taking her phone off her was an emotional response so I explained I was hurting so bad and that was why I did what I did.
So what now? Please help...
M(41), W(37) S (6) D (4) S (2) M-8, T-12 W "I don't love you, I am in love with another man" "I don't know you anymore"
You've have placed your boundary. Its not up to her to make the choice on whether or not she wants to. The more you do as you just stated - that's just more chasing and begging/pleading.
You can threaten to take her phone away but she isn't your child. If she isn't contributing to the household either directing with a job OR indirectly because she does childcare and keeps the house, THEN have a talk about her need to contribute. But, stop threatening to take her phone away.
Do you really think that taking her phone away will solve OM? It won't. She will find other ways... so stop.
You did good on the conversation about putting the kids first and agreeing on how you would treat each other. Beyond that you went WAY too far.
Real it back in. I know it hurts and stings but stop bringing up her phone and OM.
Refresh my memory, please. Is the OM married, with children? Does he have extended family members who attend the same church? Do you & W have extended family members attending the same church?
I feel that her change of mind to continue living under the same roof for two more years......and then saying to take it a day at a time......did not come by your actions (180, detaching, & GAL), necessarily. For some reason, she seems to be buying more time. I may be dead wrong, but I wonder if she was putting too much pressure on the OM to commit to divorcing his W, and now, he is trying to backtrack and tell her it may take a couple of years before they can officially be together. Which would be OM trying to cool her heels about divorcing you, so as to drag out their A. If she told him that you knew about the A and she was ready to D you now, the reality may be getting more real than he wanted. If he has children, and your W was asking him if he would financially support her if she left you...........but who knows. That's just a ton of idle thinking, on my part that her Plan A might not be as secure as she thought.
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I also said that with regard to the OM she would need to cut ties with him including FB etc. And she said she would "tomorrow" she was very defensive and I asked if they had been messaging that day and she said they had and I reiterated that those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.
Do you feel you can live like this for two more years? Is this suppose to be some type of in-house separation......or is it that you'll just be sleeping in separate beds? Maybe I missed something.
Even if the status was not clarified, verbally, the fact you told her things had to end with OM should have made it known that you would not live with her if she continued the A. I think you did a good job there.
She said she would do it tomorrow. So, is that her agreeing to end the A? Not that you can believe anything she says, so be prepared to enforce it. BTW, I like that, "Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing".
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I told her how hurtful it was that even now she was not prepared to be truthful with me, she then started shouting and calling me a bully. This morning I reflected and could see my actions in taking her phone off her was an emotional response so I explained I was hurting so bad and that was why I did what I did.
Well to be very blunt........how it makes you feel is not her priority of concerns, ATM. She is addicted to the affair. Do you get that? She is addicted to those text messages coming from OM. Those text messages are like a drug "fix" for her. So naturally, if you try to throw a wrench into it, she is going to react badly.
From what you've reported, it seems you are doing a good job at GAL, and maybe at 180's, (can you be more specifice about what your 180's are), but at any rate, you are really trying, so I think overall you are doing pretty good.
I see you trying to be honest, respectful, and calmly, yet firmly, interacting with her during the conversation. I think you did well. I am a little confused about the status of the M. You were discussing your boundary about her not disrespecting you in front of the children. My question is, when you told her no contact with the OM.......was this your boundary? I gather that it was. So, when she was not ready for you to see her phone, you later thought it over and decided you should not take away her phone? Can you clear this up for me?
FWIW, whenever you state a boundary, an agreement from the other person is not required. You seem to go to great lengths at explaining your boundary. As someone has already said, a boundary is not negotiable. Of course, it is much nicer when the other person cooperates and honors your boundary, but when the other person happens to be your wayward W........it usually means you will have to enforce that boundary.
If you decide taking away her phone is not what you should do, then do you plan to look at her messages? Of course, you know she will delete anything that incriminates her. So, how do you intend to enforce this boundary that she ends things with OM? I'm not trying to confuse you, but I am the one confused here.
BTW, when she started screaming and calling you a bully, what did you do?
I find it interesting that she accuses you of the very things she is doing. She accuses you of having an A, and she accuses you of bullying. She is guilty of doing both.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Not sure on how to do the whole quote things sorry
Refresh my memory, please. Is the OM married, with children? Does he have extended family members who attend the same church? Do you & W have extended family members attending the same church?
The OM is divorced, the Church is one parish with 6 churches- OM and his dad normally go another church. W family have stopped going as I am there.
Do you feel you can live like this for two more years? Is this suppose to be some type of in-house separation......or is it that you'll just be sleeping in separate beds? Maybe I missed something[/quote]
At the moment the children do not *outwardly* sense anything- when she first left they did. . .at the moment I think she views it as separation but it is not an "in house separation" in the normal sense- I am sleeping in a separate room downstairs and it is giving me and her some space.
Even if the status was not clarified, verbally, the fact you told her things had to end with OM should have made it known that you would not live with her if she continued the A. I think you did a good job there.
She said she would do it tomorrow. So, is that her agreeing to end the A? Not that you can believe anything she says, so be prepared to enforce it. BTW, I like that, "Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing" [quote] She says she is just messaging him, but she did admit that she still loves him, and I think that it was a lie to say she would stop messaging him. With regard to enforcement, I am kind of stuck as if I leave it will disadvantage me in terms of any outcome and I don't think I should be the one leaving the MH. So I am not sure on what else I can do other than hope the OM situation runs it's course- what else can I do?
Well to be very blunt........how it makes you feel is not her priority of concerns, ATM. She is addicted to the affair. Do you get that? She is addicted to those text messages coming from OM. Those text messages are like a drug "fix" for her. So naturally, if you try to throw a wrench into it, she is going to react badly.
From what you've reported, it seems you are doing a good job at GAL, and maybe at 180's, (can you be more specific about what your 180's are), but at any rate, you are really trying, so I think overall you are doing pretty good.
180's are: I am not messaging her all the time like I used to. I would always initiate conversations- I don't do that anymore. I am not telling her my thoughts or feelings in an open manner I am not asking her permission for things. We would normally have a meal with each other- but as I am also on a diet- I do not sit down for a meal with her anymore. It is hard sometimes not to want to message her especially about the children etc.
I see you trying to be honest, respectful, and calmly, yet firmly, interacting with her during the conversation. I think you did well. I am a little confused about the status of the M. You were discussing your boundary about her not disrespecting you in front of the children. My question is, when you told her no contact with the OM.......was this your boundary? I gather that it was. So, when she was not ready for you to see her phone, you later thought it over and decided you should not take away her phone? Can you clear this up for me?
Yes it was a condition of us being open to the idea of taking one day at a time- that is when I said that if we were to work thing out one day we would need that honesty and no more secrets. I handed the phone back the following day as I realised my reaction was borne out of emotion not rational thought.
FWIW, whenever you state a boundary, an agreement from the other person is not required. You seem to go to great lengths at explaining your boundary. As someone has already said, a boundary is not negotiable. Of course, it is much nicer when the other person cooperates and honors your boundary, but when the other person happens to be your wayward W........it usually means you will have to enforce that boundary.
If you decide taking away her phone is not what you should do, then do you plan to look at her messages? Of course, you know she will delete anything that incriminates her. So, how do you intend to enforce this boundary that she ends things with OM? I'm not trying to confuse you, but I am the one confused here.
I don't plan to look at her messages, I don't think that will serve any purpose other than to feed my little green jealous gremlin inside, and I don't think it would serve any purpose. I am hoping that guilt will become too much and she will eventually make the decision for herself. I keep repeating- I cannot control her- so let her come to her own decision- it is just that while she continues to message him, I am in limbo.
BTW, when she started screaming and calling you a bully, what did you do?
I said I am hurt by your secrets, and I feel calling me a bully is unfair, so I am walking away" and I did, I was calm and never raised my voice.
I find it interesting that she accuses you of the very things she is doing. She accuses you of having an A, and she accuses you of bullying. She is guilty of doing both.
In a strange way, it gives me hope that she is in conflict, she cannot rationalise her behaviour right now.
M(41), W(37) S (6) D (4) S (2) M-8, T-12 W "I don't love you, I am in love with another man" "I don't know you anymore"
Just one correction. WW can ALWAYS rationalize their behavior. It might not be right, correct, fair, accurate, realistic, etc. But in their mind they always have an excuse. "You are mean." "You are too controlling." "You weren't there for me." "You didn't meet my needs." Etc.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Im new to the DB boards and just recently shared my first post. I was hoping to maybe get your thought on my sitch. Im sure, if time permits, you can look at my post and get up to speed. Ive read your comments on other posts and its obvious you have a good handle on dbusting and waw. You also say the tough things that ars difficult to hear, but absolutely necessary to grow. I know that ive made a lot of mistakes in my marriage, and that i need to learn from them and evolve constructively. I love my wife deeply(ive never felt energy with anyone like i do with her) and want to keep our family together more than anything. We have a beautiful family, 1 girl(ivey league candidate) and two boys( smart and warm hearted). Any help that you can offer is very appreciated. And my moms nams is Sandi, so thats a positive.
