Newbie In Need Of Guidance #2

[rminer]

Don't take any of this reply as a defense of myself, only explanation in hopes of getting to the root of the issues.

After reading your views I can see how she could feel the way you describe on many of your points.  Both of us are guilty of some of the things you point out.  I say "both" because I have felt the same way many times and I think they have played in to some of my actions/reactions toward her as well, but we are focusing on my actions atm, so...

Are you giving off cold and mad vibes toward her?

No. Not at all.  I'm doing as the 37 rules say.  Not initiating much conversation, but not ignoring her either.  When she speaks to me, I'm polite and to the point.  I try to act happy at all times, but not overly happy, and I am careful not to act mad at her. I just don't talk as much as I used to.  I do greet her in the mornings when I see her and always say goodnight, although it is not necessarily directed at her alone since D14 is usually in the living room with her.  I'll ask how she is as well.  I'm just not going overboard.  No ILY, hugs, kisses at all.   Only the occasional text when necessary and I reply to hers as time permits. Sometimes immediately, but more often delayed.  Responses are kept brief and on topic.  This is all very different than I used to be.


There is not much opportunity for conversation as she does not initiate much either.  Pretty much only about the kids and business.  

How long had she complained about her car before you tried to repair it? In all honesty, was not having it fixed sooner some attempt to keep her from meeting up with OM? Did you actually tell her your plans to have it towed that evening?

She had been complaining since last summer.  The problem is that I could not get the vehicle to duplicate the issue and her description of what was happening was so vague it could have been anything.  I explained this to her and probed for more information,  but she could never give enough information to narrow it down.   I had the vehicle scanned and no error codes showed.  I do understand that she doesn't see it this way though.


No, it had nothing to do with the OM.


No, I didn't tell her I was having it towed.  I never would have dreamed she would have attempted to drive it there.  Taking care of anything outside of the house, including cars has always my responsibility.  She was throwing another tantrum, so I told her she could take it herself to set a boundary.

You never hear what I am saying"......is your W emotionally relating to past incidents and connecting them to the current one.

This is definitely possible.  I can't come up with a specific example of me doing this ATM, but I am sure it has happened. 

"I talk and you do whatever you want to do", is her saying that she feels her views are not considered, appreciated, or respected. By ""doing whatever you want", sounds as if you look like a jerk or bully in her eyes.

Are you saying this in relation to the "You never hear what I am saying" statement or that I'm making decisions without her?  If it is the former, I can see the relation.  If it is the latter, it is simply not true. I will get to that below.


As far as being a jerk or bully, I'm not.  Far from it.  As you have said (as well as my kids), I tend to give in way too easily to her.  Unless, of course, she is referring to me after I came here.  I don't give in much any more for the most part and I am firmly setting boundaries.


I do understand what you are getting at though.

"You're in control of everything and I feel like I have no voice in anything important", sounds as if she has not felt very valued when it came to important decisions.

She has a voice in every decision of any consequence.  If it affects the both of us or the family, she is involved in the decision and we usually go with what she wants.  

The only thing I'm "in control of" is the finances, and that is only to a point. She has free reign to spend within the budget, which is based on getting bills paid and food in the refrigerator first.  She knows this.  


She has always been a spender and not a saver, and since we do not have much extra money, there are things she wants which we can't afford.  I do put my foot down when it comes to being frivolous with money, insisting that bills are paid before extras are bought.

Frankly, I can't help but think what she said is true to some degree. I am saying this really had very little to do with the car. It goes deeper...     ...Make sense?

Yes, you are probably right, and it does.

Maybe it's a little of both, you think?

Definitely possible.

Could you tell if she appeared let down when you stopped doing special things for her?

When I stopped pursing just over a month ago, she didn't seem to notice, at least outwardly towards me.  I watched very carefully for any reaction from her, even the smallest, and I saw nothing.  Since you asked the question, when we were in the car alone today, I asked D14 since my W talks to her a lot.


I asked exactly like this:  "Think back a month ago when I stopped showering your mother with attention.  What would you say her reaction was?"


D14's answer was "That's easy. She was mad.  Especially when you stopped telling her goodnight. She said she knew you weren't going to keep texting her too.  She's made a few comments about that."


Just for clarification, my morning routine included giving my wife a kiss and saying ILY before I went to work, even when she was still sleeping.   At night I would do the same to all of the kids and my W.  Now it is just a general "goodnight" to everyone in the room.  No one,  including my W gets a kiss, individual ILY or "goodnight" unless they are in a different room.

Refresh my mind, how did she respond during that time you were showering her with attention?

It depended on what I was doing.  She acted as though she was tolerating the hugs and would not hug back.  


Kisses she avoided and seemed annoyed with, except when I started kissing het neck. She giggled when I did that.  No, she is not ticklish.


With both of the above, she would have a smile on her face, but it wasn't a normal smile. It is hard to describe.  It was like she was taking pleasure in my groveling.


ILYs were dismissed. "Sure you do,"  "So you say" and silence were the most common responses.


When I did things around the house,  she didn't mention them.   When I offered to stop at the store while I was out, she said "Thank you."  When I bought her flowers and said that I saw one of her favorite flowers in the bouquet which reminded of me of her, she seemed appreciative.


Text messages from me just to say "hi" or see how she was doing were met with one or two word answers, if answered.

How did you respond when she mentioned how you went from paying her attention to being mad at her all the time?

I told her that I wasn't mad at her and never was.

I was going to say that when I was doing those things she just rejected me or something to that effect, but I remembered you scolding me last time I answered it that way so I didn't. I didn't have a better answer, so I left it alone.


When someone doesn't talk much or simply wants peace and quiet, no matter who they are, she assumes they are mad at her.   Sometimes she forgets that people don't always want to talk.  An example is me in the mornings - I do not want to talk. I leave the radio off when I'm driving to work because I don't want the noise. It took her years to figure this out amd realize I wasnt mad or in a bad mood. I just wanted a little quiet time before I started my day.

Then I tend to believe this is something she has needed for a long time. And I am not saying it is definitely the reason she is in an A, but can you understand how it could leave her vulnerable to another man's attention?

Yes, I can.

that point yet.......if she's having an A.

Are you thinking there is a possibility she's not having an A?  There is every indication that she is, but I would love to be wrong on this.

For instance, the fact she has felt forced to live in a place she hates. I have lived in a lot of different places. While I loved some, and a few I hated. Environment, weather, culture differences, etc., plays a big factor with some people. The way your W sees you refusing to move away from the cold weather state, is you being stubborn, maybe  maybe even a little selfish and not wanting to do something she feels is important to her overall well being and happiness.  Now, how much difference it would actually make in her, IDK. But these factors have caused significant resentment for a long time, and it apparently had no affect in your decision to stay in the place she hates to live. What if it was reversed and you had to live wherever she decided?

We live where we grew up and she hasn't always hated it.  The only time she hates it is in the winter. 


We have talked about it for many years as something we would do someday.  In our discussions we have always agreed it would be best to stay here until our parents are gone since we both have very small families and we felt it was important for our kids to know their grandparents.  She has also said on many occasions that she is the only one her mother has, so she couldn't leave her behind.


Living here is by mutual agreement and choice, not force and she knows that.  I only brought it up because she was talking about future plans while she is telling me she doesn't think the marriage can be saved.


Now, if moving would fix our marriage it would be an option to consider, but I don't think that would be the case.

I suggest you stop thinking about talking, and just practice listening. If you are missing anything, it's b/c you are not really hearing her. But no, I don't think she was mysteriously trying to get you to make a move.

I'm not going to lie, I think about "the talk" a lot and how it might go, but I am not actively pursuing it. 


I wish we could edit posts because that was not what I actually wanted to ask.   I posted again to change what I was asking to was she reaching out in any way to try to work on things, or at least say she was willing to.  She went from cold to very nice back to cold. 


The timing of nice after the text exchange and back to cold on Valentine's Day seemed like each event may have influenced the changes she had.   The week and a half of nice seemingly out of nowhere confuses me, so I guess I was just looking for a reason behind it.